I agree with you that an item should be attainable within era of that expansion, had the expansion been for a 12 week period & not 8 this would have been entirely feasible & I think Underfoot & all of the expansions which followed it should have been on a 12 week & no 8's for exactly this kind of reason. Flagging has been adjusted to account for the time the expansion will be in era on a short lockout server on multiple expansions, so has the keying & so has the staggering of unlocks of staged expansions. It is perfectly logical to adjust the currencies granted per event - on a server which has a 4.0x speed of unlock a 2.0x increase in currency or a 0.5 decrease in the costs is not an illogical or unreasonable request & damn the naysayers.
Raiding on lockout every 6th day, never missing a single day, and still being short for buying an item with currency in era does seem like an error. Need vs Want doesn’t matter. In my opinion what should matter is trying to construct a server to reflect the experience that a live player who played through the years had. Part of this is loot accessibility/saturation. Guilds spent a full year in each expansion meaning they had 12 months to farm raids. Out of those 12 months they were earning currency and chest loot each week they raided. Now obviously there are exceptions to this like tiered launch expansions. In CoTF for example it launches T1A raids October 2013, T1B January 2014, T2A May 2014 and T2B release in July 2014, and TDS in October 2014. People were raiding all the T1 raids for a 9 months and T2 raids for about 6~ months. On Phinigel we will see 8 weeks of T1 and 6 weeks of T2. I think it makes sense on all TLPs to do underfoot treatment, double chest loot. I also think once you break into currency raiding and year long expansions doubling currency makes sense as well. The reason loot is awarded the way it is on raids over the years has been handled to try to drag out the gearing process for players so that they keep interest in the game. On TLP servers due to the pace of the servers especially when they are doing these 12 month expansions in 2-3 months, there’s enough content and things to do to keep interest among players, even more so now that players have omniscient views of what the next 6 or 7 expansions entail. Even if players ran out of things to do in RoF they know because live has already done it that getting rare old tradeskill drops or learning combines is useful for artisans prize, or doing PoP hunters is useful for TBL evolving gear etc. In short there should be no concern for boredom among players on TLPs in late stage expansions should they choose to accelerate raid loot acquisition.
I don't even care about chest loot being doubled. That is a non-issue if currency is properly addressed. If we are being honest - we will plow this content from now until live regardless of if all of our raiders are decked out in the best gear. However, it is a gut-punch to award a currency that you will literally never get enough of to use in era. The math for increasing it to the point of usefulness is simple as well. It also doesn't matter what way the implementation goes. You can either increase the amount of currency dropped per raid, or decrease the cost of items. Either one solves the problem. Again, to reiterate - this is not a problem in current era CotF. It IS a problem moving forward from TDS to TBL.
I don't think anyone has established yet that there will be such a currency. The only hard example with actual numbers given in the thread is one particular chase item that will not (quite) be purchaseable in era. That doesn't mean that nothing will be purchaseable with that currency, just not that one item. If there is an example of it being impossible to accumulate enough currency on Phinigel to use any of it at all, which currency?
I addressed it in my first post in this thread. Recapped below: RoF was perfect. In CotF we will be able to get 2 T1 items in the 2 month period, and 1 T2 item (earning at 30 a week, only having 7 weeks because of release delay). This is significantly less then previous expansions and could stand to be doubled or even tripled. In TDS the problem is very evident. Firstly, due to flagging issues, which I have addressed in another post, you only get 2 chances at currency for the first 4 weeks (80 total). Then you have 6 raids for the next 4 weeks (240 total). Then for the final 4 weeks you have the remaining raid so 7 total raids (280 total). For a potential total currency of 600. The lowest cost item is 319. Which means you will be able to get 1 item in era, there is only 1 tier, and you will have just shy of enough for another item. This should be tripled or even quadrupled since on live people had a year to farm this content. In RoF we got 10+ items from currency total through all 4 tiers. In CotF we will get 3 items. In TDS we will get 1 item. The difference is wildly evident. If you don't agree, then there's nothing left to be said on the subject. But chiming in to shoot down helpful solutions every time they are brought up on a server ( or servers when you count Selos and the others that will be in this situation soon) that you don't even play on seems like a lot of work for no reward.
So your claim above that you will be awarded currency that you will "literally never get enough of to use in era" is just flat wrong, and contradicted by your own earlier post. Got it. I would be more sympathetic if you guys weren't hystrionic and misleading about this stuff. And once again the argument boils down to "we have a fourth the time so we should get four times the currency." That's not how it works.
As stated above if you don't see the difference in getting 10 pieces of gear or more from currency to only getting 1 during a three month expansion... then lets just agree to disagree as it appears logic is at odds with whatever it is you are touting.
You cannot have a reasoned debate with Machen, he isn't handicapped by logic or reason like most people & I think that he just likes to object to things as some kind of crusader of negativity, almost everything generally that TLP players would like to see change he hates on sight, he is of course entitled to do that, but I put him on ignore so I don't have to read his tripe.
Defo agree with op and the currency issue pointed out. That simply doesn't make sense at all. Also, about Machen, that trolling of every single tlp post from someone not even playing tlp is really irritating. Hopefully devs also decided to ignore him...
First of all, and let me be very clear about this: No one is looking for your sympathy here Machen. You vastly overestimate your position in this discussion. You are but a mere distraction from the real issue, and that is the only reason I deem it necessary to even reply to you; to point out that fact. I respect your opinion on some issues. But your overwhelming need to be the opposition in almost every situation is annoying at best, and pathological at worst. Secondly, you misspelled histrionic. If you are going to attempt to use "big" words in your post, please assume not everyone on this forum is a moron. Some of us went to college. Spell check your posts please. It detracts from your "holier-than-thou" persona when you misspell things and I cannot immerse myself in your condescending aura. That being said, we seem to be in a better position than I thought previously in CotF. Although according to my math, we will not be able to purchase Bloodstained Shoulders with our T1 currency (we will be about 40 shy of the 1200 needed) at least we should be able to buy the shield with T2 currency in era (360 Fists of Bayle) assuming we don't buy anything else. This is a problem because some people have things on the T2 vendor that they need to purchase. The PoWar raid does give 20 currency instead of just 10. This should help the situation a bit, but it is not looking good for TDS. If the raid unlock stays the same, we MIGHT be able to purchase one item in TDS. If you think about it, there is already a precedent for increased currency, and it is evident in COTF. Some of the raids they released AFTER the initial tier (T1b, and PoWar specifically) award currency at an increased rate (20 per). I assume this is because YOU WOULD HAVE LESS TIME TO ACCRUE CURRENCY BECAUSE OF THE RELEASE TIMELINE. The point here is that as we move deeper into these eras, the currency we receive becomes less and less potent. If we were able to buy 10 items in RoF, why then should we only be able to buy one item from this same system in TDS.
I think a very important takeaway here is that calculations for chase items and items attained in era assume perfect RA for the duration of the expansion. If you look at it from the perspective of a relatively casual raider who sometimes has to do things in real life, these items go from "barely attainable" to "can't acquire in-era" relatively quickly. To use a recent example, currency was plentiful in RoF and yet a fair number of people still weren't able to purchase their bifold in era because real life happens. Doubling or tripling currency isn't going to make a dent in live or in pretending these events are difficult because of gear limitations, we don't have FV loot so there's no currency driven RMT economy to consider, and the change should be relatively simple and greatly beneficial to the more-casual crowd so why hasn't this happened yet?
Issue could definitely benefit from some developer input, I know they are always busy but this issue is going to affect every accelerated unlock schedule TLP, so getting the balance right earlier is going to be a good thing for the longer-terms health of the TLP concept moving forwards even if it only applies to a very small population of "deep into the expansions" players on one TLP right now as all of the other TLP catch up to live they will be finding themselves in a similar position.
I believe this has already been addressed as past expansions on live are now giving more currency once a set period of time has passed since they launched.
While that is great for live servers, it doesn't help us "in era" on TLP's with 2 or 3 month windows for content.
How much currency is dropping from the events on TLP? The updates didn’t say from when the expansion was unlocked but from when it was released. Otherwise where would be no point to saying 3/6/9 months after release for the tlp servers.
The same amount as live servers saw when said content was new and current. Can we get a dev to pitch in on this? It's an issue that should be addressed.
I got an answer from Ngreth in discord for what its worth. It said "not answering questions that I have no answer to". For clarification I asked several questions. I am very appreciative of the ones he DID answer. It seems we are going to just have to grin and bear the fact that we will not be using currency for more then 0-1 items per expansion from TDS forward.
So basically the team have no answers to this question, well that sounds to me like they haven't even given this question consideration to begin with. This blows my mind at the same time as it doesn't surprise me one bit. Opening servers with accelerated unlock schedules without having looked at all of the obvious ramifications of the acceleration is downright half-arsed, if I did stuff like that in my career I would have been looking at legal sanctions as there would have been stakeholders making me personally responsible, it's just bad business practise to make decisions without at least planning for the things those changes will impact. /sigh
This has once again fallen off the front page because everyone and their brother loves asking for new TLP servers with absurd rulesets. And yet, that is not considered spamming, but bumping this post to the front page is... Go Go Logic.
