This just isn't true. The dev team does not create enough content for each expansion to fill a full year. They haven't for many, many years. They release expansions 12 months apart because that's all the dev team can put out. If the dev team suddenly somehow doubled in time and they started putting out two expansions a year, or if the once a year expansions were doubled in size, no one on live would complain that they had too much content and not enough time to complete it all. Just the opposite, the player base would be overjoyed that they had more to do. Also, thought you were going to ignore me? Can't resist, huh?
I discovered that the ignore feature is per-browser, don't panic though on ignore you are again, on all browsers this time.
Machen, I like you man. I think you have some good points sometimes and you bring a unique perspective to a lot of conversations that I can only assume is from years of experience playing this and other games. That being said, sometimes I think you like to play devil's advocate a little too much. You like to argue the unpopular viewpoint and relish in the role of contrarian. As far as I know you no longer play on any TLP server that even has raid currency, so I guess I don't understand the reason why you would be so vehemently against any implementation of this sort, since it does not directly affect you. If the reason is that you like to debate topics on these forums and you have fun doing so, I guess I can't really deny you that right. Most of the other people posting on this topic at least have a dog in the race. If there is a person posting on this topic that you do not get along with, then I would really hate it if opposing their viewpoint was the main goal fueling your posts. I do hope that is not the case, but in looking over the posts in this thread, its hard to not lean in that direction. I, on the other hand, actually play on Phinigel currently and after having discussed it with many members of my own guild and others on the server we agree that it could only help, not harm, the state of affairs on Phinigel going forward. The simple fact of some gear having ZERO chances of dropping on a raid chest and ONLY available through purchase from a currency vendor is reason enough to have currency looked at. Phinigel has been, thus far in its progression towards live, a frontier for changes that will pave the way for other servers when they reach certain eras. The changes to RoF and COTF unlocks come to mind, as well as some other things that other servers will never have to deal with thanks to the community on Phinigel speaking up and pointing out how things could be better. I hope to keep it that way.
You know release dates are constrained by many other things outside of "how long should the last one last?" So your argument that expansions were supposed to last 12mo because thats how long it took them to release the next one is equally as flawed.
The intent of the expansions to last 12 months or not, doesn't negate the fact that they do, in fact, last 12 months. Do you have an argument for or against the implementation of an increase in raid currency? Because that is what we are discussing, not picking apart each post and finding things we can disagree with that have nothing to do with the main focus of this thread. Lets stay on topic please. The fact is that no matter how long the expansions lasted or were intended to last on live, they last 2-3 months on TLP. Lets focus on that rather than what happened on live. Assuming you can clear an 8 week expansion day 1, with 5 day unlocks that gives you the ability to do 11 clears if you are doing them on lockout. Lets take COTF as an example. That would give you 880 T1 currency and 440 T2 currency assuming PoWar gives T2 currency (I don't remember if it does or not). That leaves you 320 T1 currency short of being able to purchase any of the T1 chase items and just barely able to purchase one of the T2 chase items with not enough left over to buy anything else. Some of these items will last long term. Going back to do them later out of era is not really an option on TLP if you want to progress and complete everything in era before the next unlock. I have yet to see someone post an empirical argument as to why an increase in currency or a reduction of prices on a TLP would be unfeasible.
Thank you for the feedback. Honestly, I do enjoy arguing on these forums, and you are correct that I do like to play the devil's advocate (although I am almost always arguing for positions that I truly hold, I just tend to see things differently than a lot of people do.) In part because I spend a bunch of time making arguments in real life, over much more significant things than this game, and it's a way for me to blow off steam. I do admit that sometimes I push it too far. In this case I admit I misread Skuz's chart (it was a bit confusing in the way it was laid out) and thought he was asking for 12x the flags and loot. I didn't read his post as carefully as i should have, so I was reacting to a misrepresentation of his position. I probably should have apologized, but since he ignored me, I don't see much point. As I posted earlier in the thread, I am actually in favor of some change both to the number of flags that drop, and the amount of currency. Especially in cases like Underfoot on Phinigel, which would have been impossible to complete in era for most guilds with the original flagging requirements. I went to the mat repeatedly arguing for the changes that ultimately were made there. Clearly Selos will need something even more drastic. But over and over, I've seen the argument made, "We only have one fourth the time, so we need four times as much loot." That always has been a bogus argument, in my opinion, because it focuses only on the length of time each live expansion lasted, and ignores things like the many expansions where even the top guilds didn't complete the content until many months in, or on the flip side for easier expansions, guilds having to stop raiding altogether the last few months of an expansion because their alts' alts have all the gear they need and there is nothing left to do. The argument that "We need more gear or we won't be able to complete the content in the next expansion" is also bogus, and has been repeatedly shown to be untrue. Now, more than ever, with all the increases in player power compared to live. This is what characterizes my response in some of these threads. Sometimes I lump people in with this position that I shouldn't, as was the case this time around. I'll try to do better. All that said, I stand by the post you quoted. But I am also in favor of some increase to flags and raid currency, just not an increase that is based exclusively on the time discrepancy. In my opinion they should look at what it would take for most members of a 54-man raid squad that raids consistently off lockout to get fully flagged and have mostly current era gear by the end of the expansion, not necessarily everything BIS or end tier, but at least most pieces current gear. Then adjust loot, currency and flags accordingly. Maybe expand it to 50 or 60 members since no raid guild has 100% attendance. I'll mention that while I'm not currently on a TLP with raid currency, I anticipate I will be at some point again in the future, so I do have a vested personal interest.
I appreciate your acceptance of criticism and your ability to be candid here. Like I have said before, I do not want easy mode. Not by a long shot. I just want something a little more inline with having only 8-12 weeks in each era. I think what they did for UF was welcomed and needed, and it did not upset the balance of things one bit having the extra loot/keys. I will say that while you mentioned increases in player power, as Phinigel gets close and closer to live status, those increases in power become less and less significant. Not to mention that in just a few short months Phinigel will be in EoK, and while it will last 12 weeks since it is a level increase from 105 to 110 most classes have over 10,000 AA to obtain just from that expansion alone. That equates to about the same level of AA that most people have accrued on Phinigel from Luclin up to Rain of Fear. There will be people falling behind and if the raids in Ring of Scale are tuned to players with over 20,000 AA then we are going to need the extra gear to compensate for the AA shortfalls. The amount of AA experience gained on TLP in that era is a topic for another thread though. I am by no means asking for anything more than a doubling of currency or a price reduction to half on TLP servers. I think that is enough and it would allow people who are not 100% raiders to have a chance at some nice loot on the vendors, not to mention where I have pointed out in a previous post, some things will not be able to be purchased even by a 100% raider in a perfect world where all content is cleared day 1 and killed on lockout thereafter.
While that's generally true, the mitigation changes they made a year or so ago are HUGE, and are actually increasing in power the closer you get to live. So it's not always the case.
Found it... I was off by a year. Semptember 20, 2017: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...-notes-september-20-2017.243910/#post-3584241 I can say, even at level 95 during VoA on Phinny, it was very noticeable compared to Fippy at the same point, or my brief stint on live during VoA.
I'll add, this is why I'm less concerned about making sure everyone is able to get those chase items too. While they are nice to have, a tank on Phinny or other TLP's without them still has far more effective AC than a tank on Fippy did with them.
LOL. You know this player base. If the expansions doubled in size or came out twice a year, the same people would come to the forums to complain that there was too much too do and not enough time.
Im not sure I follow on the correlation between chase items and tank AC. As far as I know many of the chase items have benefits for multiple classes. I do not think basing everything on if a tank can survive current content is a good way to measure things. There is a difference between being able to complete content and having fun doing it. Yes it can be done, but if things are tedious and time consuming,they stop being fun for a lot of people.
I mention tank ac because that's the single biggest factor in beating content in later expansions, with melee weapons being a close second. If you can get by without your tank having his chase items, you can get by without your cleric or mage having his chase items. I agree it should be at least theoretically possible to get one though. If you can only buy it with currency, and can't possibly earn enough currency in era to buy it, that should be addressed.
As far as I know, none of the chase items are raid vendor only. Some of the Best in Slot Melee weapons and non-visible items are only able to be purchased from the raid vendor in CoTF. I have not yet looked into TDS or beyond. My whole point is that making the change to either double the amount of currency awarded for each event or reducing the prices on vendors by half on TLP would be a positive for everyone and would have few, if any, drawbacks. It would allow your average raider to obtain 1-2 more items from each tier (not game breaking in the least) and it would provide the opportunity for your hardcore 100% Attendance raiders to obtain the chase items they desire in era. Given the amount of time each expansion lasts on live, it is possible for your hardcore raiders to pretty much obtain every single chase item by the time the next expansion launches, and DBG has zero problem with this. The very fact that these chase items are able to be purchased with raid currency suggests that they even encourage it. Most of them are locked behind raid achievements anyhow. On TLP a guild will be lucky to see 1-2 of these items drop from raids given the low drop rate and small amount of time in each era. The rest of them will have to come from a raid vendor, and as I have previously stated, even if you cleared COTF 11 times in era (which will be almost impossible) you will be short of buying the T1 chase item by more than 300 currency. I do not see any issue with expanding the buying power of raid currency on TLP be it through double rewards or half price on the vendors. Considering we only get so much time in each era, it would not trivialize any content and would only serve to make the player-base happier and feel like they at least have a shot at chase items, like everyone on live servers do.
Good post. And Selos players should try & get behind this too, it will be even worse for them when they reach the raid currency era.
Just to give clarity for the Dev's consideration - In RoF currency is such that if spent carefully we are able to get 3-4 items per tier (4 tiers) in a 3 month period. This is fine, working as intended. In CotF we will be able to get 2 T1 items in the 2 month period, and 1 T2 item (earning at 30 a week, only having 7 weeks because of release delay). This is significantly less then previous expansions and could stand to be doubled or even tripled. In TDS the problem is very evident. Firstly, due to flagging issues, which I have addressed in another post, you only get 2 chances at currency for the first 4 weeks (80 total). Then you have 6 raids for the next 4 weeks (240 total). Then for the final 4 weeks you have the remaining raid so 7 total raids (280 total). For a potential total currency of 600. The lowest cost item is 319. Which means you will be able to get 1 item in era, there is only 1 tier, and you will have just shy of enough for another item. This should be tripled or even quadrupled since on live people had a year to farm this content. Raid currency is one of the best things to happen to EQ Raiding, but it needs to be functional for shortened era TLP's to maintain its benefits. I would love to see some dev comments on this thread, at least acknowledging that the issue becomes more pronounced moving forward. On a server like Selo's, left unaddressed currency will never be useful at all.
I had not had a chance to look at TDS but just going off what you posted, the problem only gets worse after COTF. This is something that needs to be addressed as it will compound some issues that I feel will become evident once we hit EoK and later where there are literally 10,000 AA to get in a 2 month time period. With that many AA to get, it will be mostly impossible for a normal person to obtain the AA points from that era before moving on to the next. Add to this a cumulative lack of gear and you have a recipe for a mass exodus from the server. I would really like to see the server reach live with a healthy population. The only way to accomplish this is to address these two significant issues: The deficit of gear/raid currency and the deficit of AA that we will soon start to see in upcoming eras.
I'm not even concerned about the jump in AA's as the jump in XP is significant as well. Coupled with the rewards for finishing Heroic Adventures, as well as many additional ways to earn XP such as collections and group mission achievements. The people who want to max XP will, even if its a challenge. Raid currency on the other hand, can't be fixed with hard work and elbow grease. It's drop rate has to be increased, or it will become useless on TLP's as outlined above.
I have not played any content past TDS since I came to Ragefire and subsequently Phinigel during that era and have not been back to live since. Is there a significant jump in XP gains for EoK to justify over 10,000 AA? The only reason I even mention it in regards to Raid Currency is because a lot of people rely on that raid gear to allow them to farm those AAs easily and efficiently. If there is going to be a lack of raid gear due to a deficit in raid currency, its going to be more difficult to farm the AAs needed to stay relevant.
