Ragefire Rotation Discussion

Discussion in 'Time Locked Progression Servers' started by Abracadabra, Aug 1, 2015.

  1. SqueeshSqueesh Augur

    Lot's of problems I can see in this format.

    Here they are:

    -The top guild is going to benefit (a lot) more than any other guild from this rotation format. This format concede more than 50% of the raid mobs to FFA. While I agree that some form of competition should be preserved, I think this is way over the top. 15-20% of the mobs being FFA would make a lot more sense.

    -There is no rule preventing getting help from other guilds while attempting both gatekeeper mobs and your rotation mob. Nothing stops a guild of 1 person getting in touch with any of the guilds already in part of the rotation to help them kill the gatekeeper mob, then help them kill the mobs of their rotation slot and share/give the loot to them.

    - As more and more guilds get added to the rotation, the number of time they get to try raid mobs diminishes. This is a problem common to all rotation system, but with only 50% of the mobs being shareable, that problem is greater, even with starting with as few as 7-8 guilds.

    -Guilds can't be booted out of the rotation even though they are unable to kill their mobs. Rules state they can be voted out with a 2/3 vote for inactivity. Is trying to killing your mob but being unable to warrant to inactivity vote? Also the problem of having no rule stating you can't get help can make this a problem.

    My 2cp
  2. Bryant Journeyman

    From the looks of it, the original rotation (Apok/RoE) was modified again today without any discussion. This is great
  3. Abracadabra Augur


    I appreciate your constructive discussion Squeesh, I welcome you to the table pending Dojii's approval of course. If Dojii's OK with it, we can get you posting access on the ragefire forums for leadership discussions.
  4. Batbener Augur

    I was lucky to grow up on Cazic. We had 5 top notch raiding guilds. 4 of them would ally and backstab each other. They would break up and reform. Arguably the top guild's leader sold his toon on ebay, taking the entire guild bank with him around Luclin. Eventually, they were forced into a rotation, but not by the GM. It's because they were literally killing each other. These forced rotations are artificial and wont make anyone happy.
  5. Graevin New Member

    LOL @TL trying to weasel their way into gaining control of the rotation... I sincerely hope DBG gets involved and stops this nonsense. You pulled all these guilds together for a "discussion" and then turned it into a "changing the rotation" gathering.

    Please, Skyp... All of us who care about the long term health of this server see through your deceptive bullsh*t.

    Also, it's pretty damn obvious that most of you agreeing with this are alt accounts or have been swayed by TL.
  6. Marthisdil Augur

    I'm myself, haven't been swayed by TL (my guild doesn't have enough people to be able to raid these end bosses), and I'm fine with the proposed new rotation.
  7. Druz Augur


    Do you realize how absurd that statement is? If you aren't raiding you should be "fine" with literally anything because it doesn't affect you.

    This new rotation is total garbage. Say you're a bard who wants a red dragonscale to complete your epic, your guild gets the gatekeeper mob down and you're feeling good. Well with this new "rotation" (it doesn't actually rotate mobs) you may not get a Nagafen or Talendor kill till Planes of Power. No guarantee you'll ever get mobs you need to progress.
  8. Marthisdil Augur

    Sure you do - you kill that new mob that can be spawned to drop the epic piece that DB added back in April...or you get a force big enough to FFA it during the other 12 hours.

    Because, lets be honest, if it didn't spawn during the time that your guild could kill it anyways, you wouldn't get it on the current rotation.

    So yes, I'm fine with it - because it will affect us in the not so distant future. It will let our guild get on the rotation and if a mob spawns during our slot during times we can play, great! If not, it's not like we'd get it anyways and TL, your guild, or someone else can get it.

    See, that's how fine I (and my guild) am/are with it.
    ElaidaTL and lalaloup like this.
  9. Realitycheck Elder


    Objectively, I think Apok and RoE are doing a pretty good job swaying people away from the current iteration of the rotation on their own. Having a google doc where only 2 people (one of which is in Apok) can edit it and making stealth changes (e.g. changing the gatekeeper from solely Naggy to also include Vox and CT) without consulting or getting the approval of all guilds - or even guilds on the rotation - tends to erode confidence in the maintainers of the document pretty quickly.

    At this point you guys are proving to be your own worst enemy. TL doesn't need to rally any support for or against anything due to your continuous displays.
  10. Ethereal Augur


    Because the future will never happen and no one will ever grow from where they are currently. Time is static, the universe is ever unchanging.

    Your second point is moot because no one knows if they'll have the extra epic loot dropping mobs available on TLP.
  11. Freki Augur

    BUT it does.... RoP is not too far from having the forces needed for the bosses. so his guild and every other guild that wants to take on these targets must take notice and CARE.

    I personally like aspects of both rotations, but this one here has the most room to be able to change and accommodate other changes. as it stands YES TL has the opertunity to get more than 50% of the spawns. but with small tweaks it will come into it's own. and thanks for telling me that i'm an alt of TL (Not true) or swayed by TL (not True).
  12. Druz Augur


    The mob added in April won't be on Ragefire...
  13. Druz Augur


    Use same scenario but with Veeshan Peak's key pieces. Guilds will be locked from progression based on whether or not Trak ever spawns in their widnow
  14. Marthisdil Augur

    Says who? There's more population on RF and LJ than on the classic servers, etc. And last I saw, you don't work for DB.

    If DB made a post somewhere about how they won't be, please link it and I'll apologize to you right here.

    Thanks!
  15. Marthisdil Augur

    They could put a group./box group at the key piece dropper what, in overthere, i forget, and not let anyone get that piece where it won't matter.

    Again - don't like it, out-dps them.
  16. Druz Augur


    My google skills are not helping me pull up a source, but it was explicitly stated
  17. Realitycheck Elder

    The rotation can (and I'm sure will) change based on the requirements of the expansions they are relevant to. The rotation in its current state doesn't have to worry about things like keyed access so it doesn't consider it.

    Kunark, VP specifically, is going to be an interesting case because of the Mighty buff. On Fippy you could kill VP bosses with a raid of ~18 (I think a bit less, actually). That's not going to be the case here. Unless you stack your raid with pet classes it's going to probably take at least ~40 well played characters to take down stuff in there.

    It's a conversation for another day but if we assume Trak drops an average of 4 teeth it's going to take at least 10 Trak kills to get the keys necessary to raid VP. Just to be totally upfront, transparent, and objective here, based on the reality of the situation, the idea that several guilds are going to be able to experience VP in era is probably very unrealistic.
  18. MightyLou New Member

    Breeze, you need to give it up. You got into the first rotation by giving Apok the leverage that they needed, so the claim that I bolded above is incredibly hypocritical. RoE never proved their ability before getting into the rotation. You got what you wanted earlier this week and mostly kept people from questioning your integrity by keeping quiet. Your posts in this thread are really only condemning your character. Meanwhile, the rest of the server is reading this and coming to the realization that you are not a force for good standing up to an evil empire.

    Wow, it appears that a taste of success has really gone to your head. If this claim is true, why have you never once mobilized for a target?

    Anyway, it doesn't really appear that any more response is needed here. Breeze is the only one still raging, and she is burying any credibility she may have had.
  19. Bufonidae Elder

    This has gotten to the point where nothing constructive can possibly come from the pettiness and poo flinging on this board. I suggest we contact a guide and ask for some periodic broadcasts over the next couple days inviting (previously existing) guilds on the server that would like into a rotation to apply, then stick with the current enforced rotation rules until all of those guilds have a chance at the gatekeeper.

    At that point we should plan a series of meetings to suggest and debate changes to the current rotation rules, including only guilds that have met the requirements to get into the rotation (with one exception).

    I have serious doubts as to whether DBG would initially accept a switch to the rules proposed here for several reasons,
    -One of the guilds already in the rotation were left out of a large part of the discussion because they were raiding under the restraints of the current enforced rotation.
    -They keep an eye on these boards and are surely aware of the controversy surrounding TLGs relationship to TL.
    -Several of the guilds involved in the most recent proposal have yet to even request entry into the rotation.
    -The two guilds that they seem to trust in this whole mess are both obviously against this recent proposal.

    The ONLY fair way to deal with this is obviously a more extensive negotiation involving all involved guilds.


    -The Last Guardians- Any outside observer would admit that the timing of his split from TL looks like Toxn was intended to become a second voice for them. It looks bad enough that I don't believe he should have a say. He should absolutely be allowed into the rotation, but he should not have a voice in shaping it.

    This is a good analogy, and I hope he has good luck with his new situation, but you offer two very relevant points
    -We all know he split from TL as soon as the rotation was announced... that's exactly why it looks so dubious.
    -Startups aren't invited to help set conventions for their industries... they do get to enjoy the fruits of them though.

    My suggestion has built into it some time so people that have been (debating?) on this message board can cool off a little before they have to negotiate a more lasting rotation that is acceptable to the entire community.

    *I have an idea for a future amendment that I hope will be considered, if the guilds involved are truly working to be fair to the whole server they'll support the idea of including an 'open' raid night every week or two. Let there be some provision for inviting small guilds and non-raiding players to experience the excitement of killing Dragons and Spiteful Deities... if for no other reason than to thumb our noses at Holly's "Casuals shouldn't get to kill Naggy" BS.
  20. Machen Augur


    DB mentioned it in the patch notes when the mobs were introduced. Patch notes specifically said this will not apply to progression servers.

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