Ragefire Exceeded Expectations - What Now?

One more thing:

Daybreak: excellent job thus far. It's obvious that you are putting a great deal of effort into communicating directly to the public, keeping us informed as much as possible, and listening to input. Certainly, you've demonstrated by action that you place great importance in this. Hopefully you're doing it already, but if not, please disregard the haters -- whiners will always whine, no matter how much you do to help. Keep up the good work.

What cracks me up is the number of people who still think "I should get to ruin your experience no matter where you play" is a valid argument. 25 pages later and you still have absolutely no valid argument.

No one is going to be punished, no one is going to have their [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] taken away and no one is going to lose anything.

What the non-boxers are asking for is 1 server where THEY get something. You don't lose anything and you aren't punished. If there are two identical servers where 1 allows boxers and 1 does not everyone has equal opportunity to play on the server with the ruleset they prefer. If you have a family in your house you wouldn't get the choice of the ip blocked server but there is still the other one so again, you aren't losing anything. In fact the only thing anyone would lose at all would be the ability to create massive bot armies and ruin that ONE server for everyone else. IT IS ONE SERVER...

As for all the posts about how easy it is to get past an IP block... You are right there is a fairly simpleapproach. You can use a VPN to bypass it... However I have never come across a VPN that allowed an "instance" of an application to use a seperate VPN. It was either the entire computer or none of the computer. So in order to box you would need either multiple computers or 1 computer running multiple virtual machines. My understanding is [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software]'s doesn't allow for multiple computers or understand virtual machines. So anyone left boxing on an ipblocked server would not be using [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] and running around with a mage army ruining everyones experience so no one would really care if they are policed. Families could technically use the same loophole and again no one would really care because you aren't the problem, you are just unfortunately not part of the solution either.

A "no boxing" server isn't just a ruleset like RP or PVP, it's actually asking Daybreak to change its entire business model for one niche server. I frankly think there are more *boxers* who are interested in having a go at a less crowded version of Ragefire than there are single account players that are going to play on Lockjaw long term.

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lets face it there nothing that can be done with boxing.its in the bones of EQ now and thats that.
instancing though means we who want to socialize can easily do it and boxers can go play in their "private" instances.afterall they are certainly not keen on social interaction otherwise they not be running 6 toons at same time.
the arguement for boxing on this server does not hold as it does on less populated older eq servers.

The logic that you are forcing people who pay $45 for three accounts and only get $15 worth of play time in is false. They can still play their three accounts on Ragefire, and nothing this new server is doing takes that away from them.

Having a new server that does not allow boxing is like a BBQ. You have people who like meat and BBQ and you have people who like the atmosphere of the BBQ, but would rather have grilled vegetables and tofu (not my personal choice, btw). Your employer puts on a BBQ, not expecting anyone to show up. Everyone does, meat eaters and vegetarians alike. The menu is almost entirely meat, with few vegetables. The meat eaters are happy, they get what they want. The vegetarians are happy to have a chance to be at the BBQ, but they are unhappy that the menu does not have food that they like. Every person has to pay $15.

The person putting on the BBQ notices the big lines for the BBQ and hears a lot of talk about how it would be nice for there to also be a vegetarian menu. The person putting on the BBQ says yes, and adds to the menu. All of the people who wanted mainly vegetables leave the first BBQ line. All the people behind them get to move up, and there is now more food for the meat lovers to enjoy. The vegetable lovers go to their food table, and they are happy to get the food they enjoy. The line there is also smaller than it was in the meat lover's BBQ as a virtue of the group splitting in half. Every person still only pays $15, no added costs are put in for the new food.

The meat eaters can still go to the vegetable table and get all the vegetables they want. They don't have to, however. If they don't like vegetables they can stay eating at the meat table and be as happy as they ever were, except they have more food content available to them because the vegetable eaters moved to the different table.

The same thing goes with a pro-boxer and non-boxer server. The boxers get to get their meat on Ragefire. No one is stopping them from doing so, and nothing is being taken away from them if more food is available. The boxers can box their hearts out on a server that is in all other ways identical to the new server. The non-boxers can group their hearts out on a server that is in all other ways identical to the first server. The people who want to have a taste of both tables can play on both servers if they want.

Someone spending $45 on three accounts isn't restricted to just playing one account. They can play all three accounts still, and get just as much value out of their subscription as before. In fact, they get added value because they are offered a new server that they didn't have before.

The boxers are already going to have a less crowded Ragefire just by the fact that there will be two servers instead of one (whether it allows boxers or not) and that they are going to add more instances to the game.

Whether Lockjaw allows boxers or not (I believe it will), there will be certain population problems down the road regardless. It's a shame that DBG didn't start with two servers at the beginning, with the plan to merge them into one after the populations dwindled down enough to make a single healthy server when the two populations start weakening.

Bleh, you aren't going to convince them to police it, would require too much work and what about the guy who has another account with a druid that he only logs on for ports?. There are many boxers that do it on their own, and try to avoid people because of the perception and then there are others that blatantly KS and run over your camps.

There are ways to work with them, just today in splitpaw and box group came in with 4 mages, shm and sk and started hogging all the mobs after we all ready settled in, we kindly asked if he would like to merge with real players and he said no and got rude with us, so we trained him for the next hour until he left. Then he asked our cleric for a rez, so he consented and we dragged his corpses deeper into the dungeon.

The problem isn't boxing in itself, it's the boxers that think they have the right to claims on stuff that 6 real people are capable of doing, you just have to have the nerve to settle it yourself instead of crying about it. You make it too much trouble for them to run, cause it's a pain in the butt, they'll leave and realize they have less right than 6 real players.

I don't believe it's realistic to expect that Lockjaw will actually be no-boxers, but that doesn't mean that I can't hope that it is.

There aren't always solutions to problems people might have with boxers, either. Taking your example, you had to train him for an hour to disrupt him. Not only are you now entering the dark and grey area of what is allowed on the server, but you've resorted to his level as well. Not rezzing him isn't a big deal at this level, either. He still has all of his gear. He only loses some experience that can easily be made back up as a 6-boxer.

Sometimes you aren't going to have much answer to them at all. Take someplace like Unrest. I was in there the other night, and if I took tracking other players off I could see the entire zone's creatures in a short little summary. There weren't enough creatures in the entire zone to train someone even if I wanted to (and I wouldn't because I'm not a fan of training).

They can't and calling for nerfs of other classes is against the EULA.

Please give us a no boxing server! Boxing ruins the whole experience. 1 Per IP or 1 Per Hardware configuration (and log/observe multiple accounts on 1 IP), whatever it takes.

The simple fact is people stop playing when a 6 boxer is hogging all the camps and loot to sell and farm cash. Then if we want that item we have to buy it from them all because they have taken over camps or areas to stop normal players from even trying to get any loot to use. Where do we draw the line on greed here? I know a lot of folks that are not playing or going to stop playing because they do not want to feed coin to farmers. What I see here is if they do have a no boxer server, no one will be able to farm it and sell items for money or coin and that makes them unhappy. One server is not going to kill you greedy people some of us want to play the game for fun not profit.

The resources right now exist for only one additional server. If that server is made as a no-boxing TLP, then it doesn't provide the extra space for the Ragefire overflow who want to box (sometimes or all the time, 2 or 6 or whatever) as well as the people who play with them.

If this was not an issue, I'd have no problem with them opening a no-boxing TLP. Hell, maybe the DB guys can scrounge up some old hardware and put up something like that with a lower pop cap. Or charge extra / separately to fund a 3rd server with that ruleset. But right now, the single available extra server needs to go to providing room for Ragefire gameplay for those who want to play on Ragefire but can't get in. Hell, merge a couple of the very underused live servers and recycle the hardware.

Keep in mind that DB doesn't throw servers up frivolously. Unlike us they can see queue numbers. If the queue was only a few hundred they wouldn't be adding a whole server for that. It's probably a queue that gets into the 1000s to justify the effort / expense of a second server.

Traffic can (and does) pass both through a VPN and around it. (Look up VPN bleedthrough that is a serious concern for people using VPN to mask less legal activities) And you can force individual software / processes to be blocked/allowed from specific network interfaces.

[Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] most definetely supports broadcasting across multiple computers. Look up "[Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] multiple computers" and you will get pointed to their own wiki page with step-by-step setup. VMs would essentially just be the same as multiple physical machines.

And even if multiple physical machines were needed, that isn't really a limitation. How many people have at least a desktop + a laptop? The kind of hardcore gamer who goes to the effort to multibox and spends $60-90/mo to box (plus the cost of various 3rd party software, VPNs, etc) will generally have at least those, if not 2 desktops, and probably old hardware they can put together for an extra machine or two good enough to play EQ on.

Thing is, bot armies are already against the EULA and bannable. But the technological and support staff resources aren't there to hunt them down, and that's without adding another thing to need to police.

Bots are absolutely against the EULA, but boxing isn't. You do know there's a difference between the two, right?

People who are talking about them needing to get rid of boxing do not understand this is a business.. Honestly the guy who PAYS for 6 acct a month is worth more to them than a guy who does 1. He is also more likely to do micro transactions in the store. Again more money for them.

That being said I am not a fan of the Bots. I get guys who want to play 2 maybe even 3 chars where they are switching around as EQ is a slower paced game. But there is no way to run 6 accounts with out the assistance of 3rd party bot programs.

I read lots of post and what I see here is a hatred towards the "Boxer". As for myself I honestly can't say that they do not have the right to be here since they pay for it.

The thing that bothers me is that after less than a week, the first clockdown into progression will start and that means within 6months there will already be a progression into the next expansions. For casual players that means less chance to experience the game as it was back in the early 2000. For old players like me that means a shorter moment in a world (and a game) that I did learn to love.

I am one of those who did lose a lots of interest of the game with the PoP expansion which changed the whole dynamic of the classes (making druid and wizard ports obsolete as example). I played for a few years after, but it was not the same. Everquest was not anymore an adventure, but a race to raid every single boss to beat the game.

With Ragefire (or lockjaw), I am expecting to find back the old Everquest. Why not stoping the progression after Luclin and giving it a chance to shine for a while. Was that not call the 1999 project? If so WHY be so hasty to make it come to 2015?

I think a really slow progression would keep the true 1999 fans in and make the hardcore players go play to a world more suitable to their needs.

That was muy 2 coppers

This kind of comment is what keeps bringing me back to post. What a load, honestly. What you are talking about is .05% of the population (if that), not all the normal people who happen to load in more than one toon. This is a silly witch hunt.

If all boxers are greedy plat farmers, I must be doing it wrong on Ragefire, because I have managed to scrape together all of 14 plat. Omgodddd, the greed, the horror!

This is like saying "One necro trained me repeatedly over and over by pulling 100 mobs to my camp and then feigning death", and thereby concluding "ALL Necros are evil trainers and we must ban feign death".

Y'all have convinced me, though. I hope you get a no-boxing server so that: 1. you'll see that plat farmers will hog camps and charge outrages prices with or without boxes 2. Hyper gamers will still stay up for three days straight and beat you to Naggy and 3. the rest of us will be free of the copious whining when you realize 1 & 2 has happened and you have to find a new target of your controlling wrath. Look out solo-ers, damn you! lol

If we're going after anyone my vote is pet classes. On live they molo the majority of the game. This must be stopped for the good of the nation!

After that, hybrids - no one should be able to do two things at once! Omg so unfair.

After that....I think we all know where this is going.

Of course. The person I was replying to was complaining specifically of bot armies.

Starting a game like this, soloing, can give a player a severe sense of loneliness, when and if they cannot find groups, thus in a lot of cases, prompting them to abandon the game altogether.

Most cases why I start a 2nd account right away when starting a game that has been around for 16 years... So when I cannot find a group or people to xp with, I can still play and see the game to some degree. I only use the auto-follow feature, no program to run other account, just me.

That being said, wouldn't removing the auto-follow feature on the new Lockjaw progression server, take care of Bot boxing issues? Seems too easy I am sure.