Please don't multi-box

What's better for Daybreaks bottom line .. 3000 paid accounts or 5000 paid accounts ... Hmmmm....

What does that have to do with this discussion? We're talking about the health of the server. Did I miss a post where Daybreak said if we don't get at least X amount this server will shut down?

Putting merc access on the cash shop will be better for their bottom line and let more people solo. Would that be okay with you? Doesn't affect you, so what's the harm? If you don't like it, don't pay for it.

DB is going to do whatever makes them the most money over the longest period of time, of that you can be certain.

I already stated before that I understand that people THINK its harmful. But thinking is perception. Knowing is truth. And I hate to say this, but I doubt 100% of P99 thinks boxing is bad. That's just a policy the people who run the server decided to do. That's in their realm to do. Daybreak or SOE has a different policy.

Sorry but its not impossible to prove with video, unless its simply not true in which case the videos will never exist. Take a look at a very well known example. In World of Warcraft before any expansions were released. There was an exploit that wasn't taken seriously by the devs. It was the reckoning stack. Basically a paladin with this ability would deal an extra attack for every critical hit he took.

If the paladin did not attack, these extra attacks would stack until used. Well some guy decided to make a video of such a paladin stacking like 1800 of these hits and taking down a raidboss within seconds. They posted it and within 24 hours the ability was nerfed to have only 4 charges.



That's the video (just not the original upload).

That's an extreme example. But another example is the farming videos performed in Planetside 2. Enough of those prompted SOE to reduce the effects of AOE damage to be less lethal.

Videos do work. If the situation is there to be recorded. So.. if there is a boxing issue. It should be easy to record. A group of 4-6 going for a named, and its being killed over and over by a boxer that doesn't wish to share. Show a couple of instances of this (that aren't obviously staged) and there's a case.

No video, no problem exists. Not a true problem anyway. Just a perceived one. One that people -Think- is there. You're right, I can't change peoples' opinions. And you know what? I really don't care if I do.

The thing I care about is to see if people are going to clutter these forums up with more boxing threads, and put them on the spot to see if they can provide any evidence of such disruptive claims. I'll wager they can't.

...I really doubt though that people boxing are going to ruin the server economy .. and I'm talking about people 2 and 3 boxing, the ones running Sam Deathwalker sized armies I will agree can cause problems but hopefully they will be rare.

there's a little difference:

Daybreak is now owned by a management firm... that's quite far from a gaming company.
Also, boxes = money ... Daybreak is owned by a management firm.
Then you have the various technical issues , if multiple people in the same house play EQ together, if someone box EQ with 2 different computer... bla bla bla

Lol I forgot all about Sam Deathwalker. I remember when he was rolling around Sullon Zek boxing 6 wizards all macro'd together. That was a terrifying sight to behold.

But yes 2-3 boxers have a huge impact on economies and content. Like I said, 3000 players is less than 5000 boxers. So content clenched harder. Plus boxers controlling through one person the items and funds that would normally be spread over 2-6 people instead.

Except there's no trust-busting in EQ to help the economy

I really do wish we could pin the type of person you described above on someone specific like boxers. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people act that way, boxing or not.

It sounds like this is really about the PnP and how it should be enforced.

I didn't ask if everybody on P99 thinks boxing is bad or not. That was not my question.

Pretty much in agreement with you there.

This makes me want to activate 4 accounts, not just 2.

Wow, so you figured out that fewer players has less impact on the economy?

5000 paid players also has an impact on an economy, just not as much an in-game one. All you are demanding is a low population server, lets face it 12 players will have a smaller impact on a server economy than 5000 players. Who would have thought?!?!

Then there is your problem that even if you could raise the 3000 "real players" population to 5000 to make up for your failure to capture revenue, I would bet that 5000 real players would loot a whole lot more than the boxers could. Certainly, they wouldn't loot less.

Your argument just makes no sense at all.

Yup now i have read a dozen threads like this that all need locked. This kind of a thread makes me wanna activate 6 accounts setup [Unmentioned 3rd Party Software] and have at the money camps.

I don't understand what's slipping through the cracks here. 3000 people is not a low population. Back in the day server pops were typically 1800-2200ish at any given time.

My comparison between numbers may have been confusing. Server A has 3000 players and 3000 characters. Server B has 3000 players but 5000 chars due to boxing. Both servers are super crowded and have a strange economy as a result. You can easily guess which is worse off.

The one with 3000 is clearly worse off, generating about $45,000 a month in revenue at $15/month. The 5000 one generates $75,000/month.

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While its obvious some of us are being sarcastic and also sometimes trying to poke fun at even ourselves, my immediate reaction to your post is: Isn't that EXACTLY what has happened over these years to morph EQ from a primarily GROUPING-CENTRIC game over to convenience and ease for solo players?

We ain't getting back our classic EQ; but we'd like a window for a similar experience that while isn't classic, has many elements which are like it was originally, and which has a reason to be motivated to be a GROUPING-CENTRIC rpg again for awhile.

That absolutely doesn't make boxers the 'devil', it was a choice during original and the early years, but players were limited then. I actually admired those who managed more than one machine/multiple screens for their two or three characters etc. I have had mainly positive interaction with boxers who have two or three characters ingame myself; but that is probs because I approach them with respect from the get-go rather than negativity. I would not do it for many reasons, but I know many who do.

That does not make null and void the fact that calls for making things easier on solo players mixed with tech changes and now boxing is a temptation which has flourished and greatly impacted the grouping with people game that this genre is based on.

Boxing is not the only thing that has contributed to the demise of the grouping game, but it has and does affect it negatively. You can point at whether the egg or the chicken came first, whether some do it because they cannot find other players to make groups with, or some do it because they prefer the power, choice and ability to avoid those they think are not up to par. It still makes one more powerful ingame, and it affects populations who previously had good reason to group with other players. For proof in our Norrath, go to ANY live server and be proactive making your own groups or searching for anyone who wants to even duo or trio up, especially at all levels below 85 or so.

We have to agree to disagree and respect opinions because we as players generally accept that more choices offer a better gaming experience for players. But some of us specifically enjoyed grouping being the most effective choice in EQ.

Here's our chance to play around for 6 months on a server that is not purely classic, but is mostly original content. So we are discussing boxing and potions that buy power, and e x p mods and other things common on modern live EQ servers, but not wanted on this new progression server. Let as many of those out-of-era items be put in at expansion-appropriate time intervals, and let grouping with individuals be a main feature of Ragefire, not an occasional choice if feeling merciful towards someone.

We'd like to visit for awhile the great interaction and fun that can be had when grouping with other individual players is to be preferred and profitable, instead of being relegated to the back row like Warner's single wing formation was.

The financial bottom line supports boxers, but count me in on the people preferring no boxes. I've done it in the past, quite a bit I might add, but this time around I'm going solo/grouped.

The beginnings of Everquest were amazing. Something that we'll never get back, I, like most here, wish to have that magic back. It's not going to happen. Everquest is no longer a new concept, spoilers and how to "win" the game are common knowledge, and the ability to box is easier than it ever was before. It's just one of those things we all have to learn to deal with. 1999 is never coming back, no matter how much we wish it to.

I can understand boxing. It's easy to set up your own group and accomplish a lot on your own. No need to divide treasure, you can start and quit when you want, go AFK and not care about slowing the group down, etc. I see and recognize the appeal.

The issue that many of us have is when content begins to get taken over by boxers. Anyone on either side of the issue is confused if they don't see that happening. Today's computers can easily support 6 accounts at once. Six accounts, especially if something like a monk to pull with, 4 mages, and a healer will pretty much dominate anything. Heck, even the dragons aren't really out of the realm for boxers.

That's where the problems start popping up. Why make a group when you can camp FBSS and make a killing selling it? Why make a group when you can take out Djarn for Golden Efreeti boots and make a killing?

There are a lot of bottle necks, and those spots are easy to hog. There are only so many places you can hunt, especially for loot items. Let's use a fake number and say that 1000 play on the server. Those 1000 only play a single account. Sure, they can solo things, but for the most part most will need to group up. When it comes time to start gearing up, they have to join a group to take down the key targets. Targets taken = 1000 divided by 3-6 people per group. Obviously we don't have that many targets, and people will be at different levels, but for sake of argument that's about 166-333 targets able to be camped. Some will solo of course (looking at you druids and necro's!), but in general its most efficient to group up.

Let's introduce boxers to the mix. 1000 people might equal 6000 subscriptions (great money-wise), but it still only really equals 1000 actual people. Those 1000 people are capable of making their own groups, so instead of dividing, we have to look at it as a 1:1 ratio of possible targets taken. That's 1000 targets rather than the 166-333 targets that might get taken if those 1000 people grouped up.

Are all 1000 people going to box? No, of course not. Are all 1000 of the other group going to group up and not solo? No on that as well. It's easy to see, though, that boxers can really dominate the game and remove choices from other players who don't play as they do.

Some boxers are great. They readily invite you to their group, and they don't care about putting you in the rotation for loot. In my experience, not many are that way. They either ignore you, say no if you ask if you can group with them, or they lie to you and say something to make you not want to group with them. End result is someone solo has to look elsewhere and a spot that could be enjoyed by six real people is only enjoyed by one real person.

That's OK in modern EQ. There are so many spots to hunt that it's impossible to keep them all locked down. In classic EQ, it's tough. You want haste? You have the choice of FBSS or Swirlspine belt. Good luck finding those uncamped. Both spots are easily taken by boxers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against boxers. I understand fully that more accounts mean that Everquest is more profitable which means that I get to play the game I love for longer. I just hope that enough of the boxers are kind enough to not dominate the content to the point that it is unfair and unfun for the rest of us. Heavens only know that the really fun targets like Nagafein and Vox will be dead a thousand times over before us regular folks can ever get in on the action.

P99 is what it is, it's not hard to find that they often boast of banning 400 accounts per month. It's estimated that the average newbie player there will last 3 months before leaving forever. They have a lot of churn there for sure but they can tap into a pool of a few million former EQ players to be able to replace a few hundred every month for a very long time.

There are other EQ 's out there that fit every other play style imaginable including some that cater to folks who'll box entire GoD raids for their own amusement. Perhaps we can use those as an example of good boxing

Generating less money has nothing to do with the server being worse off. Less profitable, sure you've got some solid first grade math down. That has absolutely nothing to do with the server economy and health as we've been talking about in relation to overcrowding.