Please don't multi-box

so you are just talking about someone that boxes 6 accounts? what about the vast majority that only box two characters? they will be at a considerable disadvantage in terms of xp and loot over a single player that joins a full group.

that is a fact..

Some people just want to play by themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

Me and a RL friend are boxing 5 accounts between us, but you can be sure well invite someone for our 6th and even 2 people and sit one of our boxes out. But we are still going to box because when it comes to making money and camping spawns, being able to do it by yourself makes a big difference.

Fact: 2 people by themselves being dual boxed is less effective (potentially, not always) than a full group of players.

You'll fine no disagreement with that statement. But the merits and advantages of dual boxing still exist even with the above paradigm. People still like doing it. Now its my turn to ask a question. Why do you think thats true, and what does that mean for the people who can't/wont box?

Sorry OP. Already spent about 700$ activating all 6 of my accounts for the year =(

As a subscriber off and on since '99 I love playing a Paladin. For almost 10 years I played one without any boxes - it was my main and it was virtually the only character I played. I learned the hard way, that a Paladin trying to find a group in Classic up until sometime in PoP is a very, very difficult thing to do. It is almost the MOST difficult thing in the game for me. Even in a guild, with a good reputation and sound playing mechanics, a paladin in the first couple expansions, is just tough to fit in a competitive group. A few years ago I taught myself to box for the simple reason that I spent hundreds (maybe?) of hours over the last decade in LFG mode.

I will be boxing on Ragefire up until around PoP. I'm getting too old to be LFG for the few short hours I get to play every day.

I know what the pros are. I'm not asking what the boxers think. They are going to do what they do regardless of what I say or what the people say who are against it.

You and I have the same goal, we're just going about it differently. I don't have an issue with boxing, I'm actually indifferent to it, or more specifically on the fence about it. I don't box, I've said that. I have no intention on boxing anywhere in the near future. But I don't want to stop someone from playing how they wish simply due to envy. I think that is wrong.

But if there is evidence that boxing is actually being disruptive. And I mean truly disruptive such as one person blocking an entire group from a named.. or more specifically groups of one person boxes routinely locking out spawns. And this is recorded (so its not just heresay) for everyone to see. And even more specifically its recorded on multiple, many different circumstances. Then there might be some merit.

Otherwise, players should just play as they wish. If you wish to box, then box. If you want live groups, then use the tools (LFG, Guild, Teamspeak, Skype, whatever) to find those groups.

I'm not defending boxers however. But if they are going to be attacked, then there has to be some substance, not perception. If that makes sense. So yeah, I am being sincere. I don't have a stake other than wanting players to be civil to each other.

But this issue has been going on for a bit as we all know. There's a problem. Either its real or perceived. If its real, I'm ready to allow those who are bringing up the complaint to show the issue. If not, then well lets dispel the perception. Though honestly I can't actually do that, as people will believe what they will no matter what. But they can't say I (or whomever) didn't try to help the situation.

To put it shortly, I'm giving anti-boxers the opportunity to show hard facts and expose the truth. The truth is what it is. We can't change the truth. And neither can they. If the truth is boxers aren't a problem then they aren't. If it is, then well the powers that be have a tool to use to fix the issue.

Heresay and opinion isn't truth. That's why I'm requesting video. And video that shows pattern of 'abuse' not just one quick shot that is showing one single chance or circumstance.

I got an idea. Since you need a full scale investigation, establishing trends, consistent proofs, and copious amounts of hard evidence instead of people recollecting on game experience alone, lets ask Geraldo Rivera if he wants to get to the bottom of this for us? That seems both reasonable, and in the spirit of the year Nineteen Hundred and Ninety-Nine!

I'm glad you and I understand that theirs two perfectly valid ways of viewing the issue. And I hope you can grasp the difference between understanding a point of view, and agreeing with it. Being for, or against isn't a matter of "right" or "wrong" in either case. I'm sorry, but theirs no truth that can exist that will reconcile this once and for all, for all those concerned. We all don't have to ever agree on this. Its just a ruling that could be enforced in either way, and makes the game and experience a completely different "spice" in either case.

Boxing on live servers, was ruled on a long time ago. Its going to be around on EQ proper probably indefinitely. On a Classic curated server like P99 though, boxing will probably never be allowed. Either one doesn't have it "right". Its just different.

If people want to box, have at it. Who am I (or who are you) to tell people how to play and how to have fun.

What's the point of being snarky and sarcastic? Its that sort of attitude that causes friction between the two camps to begin with.

The point of being snarky was to have a little fun at how ridiculous, and un-realistic the idea of "proving" anything regarding how people feel about boxing. I'm sorry for it though. It was pretty jerkish to lead off with that.

Particularly so, because you were already leaving yourself a backdoor out, just in case this evidence that gets presented isn't substantial enough. Poppycock.

And as for the friction? I don't care. Like I've said countless times. This debate is as old as EQ is itself, and its never going to get resolved. Its a ruling thing. I can still love Everquest both ways. Its different if you play it with or without boxing, and thats just fine by me.

I only threw my hat into the discussion because people pose questions as traps pretending like they want to understand why people don't like boxing, but i always fall for it. Again, I reiterate how rare on the internet it is for people to tell the difference between understanding alternate points of view, and agreeing with it. I'm so stupid.

Some people, myself included, begin to box when the accumulated bad experiences with PUG's reaches a critical mass. Later boxing becomes fun and challenging and you default to loading a couple of character. Once I became comfortable with boxing it once again became easier to accept someone else into my group as I had a handle on some of the core responsibilities and not worry about the healer or tank taking a smoke break or watching videos when I'm fast pulling.

While we're on the subject, why not just tell people to not play solo classes either. After all if they don't want to group with you, shouldn't they be made to? #funourwaynotyours

people should be able to box as many accounts as they wish, as long as they don't use any 3rd party stuff to do it with. if it isn't an in game feature shouldn't be allowed.

Not a problem I think i understand where you are coming from. But I actually don't believe what I suggested is ridiculous. Its actually how many people show broken things in Planetside 2. Videos are very good indicators of what's going on.

There's an assumption that I have an agenda. That I want someone to post evidence and then can point and say, "yes its bad, lets nerf/ban it!" But that couldn't be further from the truth. I don't believe such evidence exists. But I acknowledge the fact that people do have a problem with Boxing. If they can prove my thoughts wrong, then it changes the discussion.

Until then, which could be eternity (most likely). I've got no issue with boxing, and will probably continue to group with the nice fellows that do it. And would probably do so even if proven otherwise as I really doubt Daybreak will fix it. But that's up to them.

I played in the old days and I know how long the debate has gone on for. But take heart, if there is a trap, its not for you, and its not for boxers. Its for the issue itself.

I think its a ridiculous issue. I really do. But have you noticed something? The anti-boxing crowd has fled this thread since I started making my posts? They are either out busy trying to get videos (yeah right) or they figured out their stance has no substance.

That's one of the things I mentioned in my first and second posts. Is that I theorized that their stance against boxing is a perceived one built on hearsay. But I am fair and gave them a way to prove me wrong. And I don't believe it is an unreasonable request. Unlike how it was in 1999 and 2001. We have OBS and Youtube to record easily and upload with decent broadband speeds.

To put it shortly, I'm putting the burden of proof on people like the OP and other anti-boxers to show how 'destructive' or 'disruptive' boxing is. I doubt they'll take up the challenge, and even if they do, they might find that finding such evidence will be difficult. I mean I did put the caveat that I wanted to see patterns and not just one instance.

Well I mean what's worse for overcrowding, 3000 people playing 3000 characters or 3000 people playing 5000+ characters. And yes a person boxing a group is far more effective and efficient than a full group. Loot and money is distributed between 6 people instead of 1 person hoarding. Cya later economy, you will be missed.

That might be because your forum posts read like small essays and they have other stuff to read too.
I say this as a friendly pro-boxer.

The arguments for boxing don't really contribute anything to the discussion. Everyone knows it's been around forever. Everyone knows it makes Daybreak money. Everyone knows you don't have time to group but still want your epic. We get it.

What we don't get is how any of this justifies paying for direct player power. I get that it's the norm and some people just genuinely enjoy boxing and soloing to relax. Awesome! There's a dozen servers awaiting you already.

I said it in another post but I am probably going to two box now, because I don't want to be at a disadvantage. Why play one char like a goof when I can use two and be more powerful and do more content without others?

Boxing is generally fine, using 3rd party software to control boxes isn't.

Again, you are looking for someone to PROVE to you, why your opinion on the matter isn't valid.

We're not talking about the scientific method here man...

That is impossible to do. It cannot be done. It is an opinion, one that which you're not really open to changing.

Would an entire server, on P99 full of people that all agree that boxing shouldn't be a part of the experience they all want to collectively enjoy be proof enough that some people think its harmful?

Do not dodge this question. Please answer it directly, and genuinely.

You can't stop them but you'll be happy to know that there will be plenty of people who don't box to group with