Please don't multi-box

When you pay for someones account then by all means dictate to them their play styles. Otherwise, stop worry about what everyone else does and find like minded folks/guilds/etc and roll with them.

I have to ask this question, but what do you anti-boxers have against boxing?

Does it ruin grouping? If this is the answer, I have to ask that if that is even true? I mean lets say most of the boxers (for the sake of argument), don't want to group. If for whatever reason they can't box, do you really think they are going to group with you? Do you really want someone who is anti-social (assuming the boxer is doing it to avoid people) to be grouped with you?

With that said, I find it hard to believe that boxers are in reality ruining groups.

Now if that isn't it, what is it? Is it that they take up room in zones away from groups of real players? Again I find this hard to believe that is the case. The play nice policy states that a player cannot hog an entire zone and if there is contest between spawns that an agreement has to be reached or a GM arbitrates. In this case, I'd imagine arbitration is going to go in favor of the 6 over the 1. Not to mention the 6 is going to be far more capable of completing content over 1 with six toons.

Some boxers are pretty... well to say it bluntly they are jerks (any demographic is going to have these). Not all are however. For example I do like the ones who box to get the necessities in the group. You know healer, buffs, ect. They invite others to join them and will kick out their toons to accommodate real players until only their main is in the group. That's cool. Especially since many of you aren't maining healers or bards.

When I played a cleric on Vox a few months ago, I frequently grouped with boxers. They loved having a 'real' healer, especially over a merc (mercs chasing off main healers is FALSE). And it was frequently the case that we'd see other real players join up.

The real problem IMO isn't boxers, but those players who clique it up and don't respond to /ooc messages about someone LFG. And those who don't use the /LFG command. Yeah.. there's a /LFG command. When was the last time you anti-boxers typed it?

I'm sitting here in zone /ooc as well as continent (antonica, odus, faydwer) chat looking for group occasionally and get no responses in those channels, no tells. Well sometimes I do, but not often. Actually you know who does respond? A boxer leveling a character and using 2 betabuffs for buffs, or a guy playing a Ranger and Paladin.

So before you complain about boxers, look in the mirror. Make sure you're not contributing to the 'problem' by ignoring group requests, invites, and for heaven's sake, use the /LFG tool. Its great. It shows your class, your level and zone. If you're using it for LFP, it shows your group make up to those who use /LFG. Its not a bad tool, and just like in 1999, it puts LFG next to your name in /who.

As an added bonus... /who all LFG still works too. If anyone's using the /LFG tool anyway. And to those of you who do use this tool (as there is a few). Congrats.. you're part of the solution to the grouping issue. Not part of the problem.

--Just an FYI.. I don't box myself. Just not my thing personally.

I box if I want to, and no matter what you say that wont change anything for me, I still group and make friends just fine and it has helped me progress when there is no groups to be had and it has been easier for me to create groups if lone_ranger_01 enters the zone and is lfg.

Boxers do not ruin anything for anyone. The issues repeatedly brought up are about consuming of content, but a group of normal players can do that just as easily (and more effectively) as a box group. A group of people who pay for a powerlevel could be mostly individual players, with one high end person soaking up a ton of content in an area.

The issue comes down to players who know the game far better than they did in classic EQ, and the low end game has been tuned many times in 16 years so the classes are more effective. The overall effect is that any group (boxed or individual people) consumes a lot more content in any given area.

The solutions are things like:

• faster mob spawns,
• increased difficulty of mobs (higher hit points, more mitigation, and increased damage), which makes handling multiple mobs much harder and reduces the effective range of a group before their mobs respawn.
• More content via instancing of all congested zones. The instancing right now seems to activate by the number of players, but it should be based on the total number of spawns available. If an instance has a group of raid geared players, they would consume far more mobs than a casual group, so the instances should activate when most of the mobs are dead in the zone.
• More content via ... more content. This is why people want to see Kunark (at least) open early on. It just means more space for more people, and is probably more effective at dealing with a lack of mobs issue than instancing.

If all of these were implemented, there would be a lot more mobs that stick around a lot longer, even with more groups of people or more groups of boxers. It makes the task of consuming a large part of a zone less viable for anyone who is trying to do so, no matter if they box or are overgeared for the area.

I'm going to pretend your question is genuine, and i'll give you a genuine response. I've long sinced resigned myself to it just being the way things are. But what I have against it is it gives players who want to do it a clear edge over those that do not.

Can players who don't want to box, do so? Absolutely.

Could players who DO want to box, just resist the urge? Absolutely.

The fact is, its a substantial advantage to have access to multiple accounts at once, in a game, that is built from the design standpoint of more players = a force multiplier.

I don't have much sympathy for the 6-mages box crew... but if boxing was prohibited, i'd feel really bad for the solo war/pal/rog/zerker/cleric...

anti-social p00p sockers have to multibox. you think those 6 mages holding down Seb is a group of friends ?

can you please explain what advantage they have over a single player that finds full groups?

i agree there, who would even want to do that for $90 per month? i am willing to bet 6 man box groups will be rare.

Boxing you can do what you want when you want. Finding a group you need to communicate with people and come up with ideas on where to go that suits everyone. There is not a single camp in classic eq through kunark at least which cannot be held down by a 3 box group. There is your Advantage. You can have one person sitting there farming things like shroom king with a 4th port toon to ship off fungis to tunnel mule toons. It enables any average selfish individual to hold everyone else to ransome with a pay to win method. For me it is not even the cost. I agree with previous posts that in a virtual world you should be represented by one character at a time. OP modern toons plus 3rd party programs utterly trivialise already trivial content which everyone has to share. My stance is that it is a detriment to the world and should only be a mechanism to cope with a dwindling populace.

They didn't have to spend the time finding it. They don't have to split loot. They don't have to feel accountable to the others if they mess up. They don't have to be courteous and spend time looking for a replacement if they have to leave.

Thats all I could think about in 30 seconds. Maybe more if i dig deeper.

Boxing != single player in a full group. A single player in full group means X content is sustaining 6 people. A person boxing is monopolizing content intended for multiple people.

Comparing 1 person boxing 6 toons to a group of 6 players is like saying Comcast can own every TV/Internet/Phone company in the country, as long as they call it 6 different names. Nope, sorry. You're still a monopoly controlled by one entity.

"They don't have to split loot."
But a lot will. The boxers in my guild are always calling out rots in guild chat or general chat.

"They don't have to feel accountable to the others if they mess up."
This is one of the reasons I box. If I'm trying something new or going afk for extended periods of time, I don't want to subject people to a bad group that's going to be filled with a lot of dying and frequent afks.

"They don't have to be courteous and spend time looking for a replacement if they have to leave."
Okay. I have to comment on this. While it would be nice if people did spend time finding replacements (and I'm referring to people in normal, unboxed groups) no one is obligated to stay until a replacement is found. If my child needs help or my boss calls me and says to come into work, I'm going to give the group 15 minute's notice and then log with appropriate apologies.

Those are all interesting anecdotes, but none of them changes the facts of the advantages i've outlined inherently. Is it that big of a deal to leave abruptly do to RL? Not really, it happens. But its still an inconvenience, and if you do it enough I'm sure you won't be surprised people might stop grouping with you after a while...

I recognize this debate is as old as EQ is itself, and we will not reconcile it here once and for all. Again I must reiterate that i've long made peace with it and don't really care that much that the TLP servers are allowing it (I think it has bigger problems than than boxing right now). I was asked questions, and I answered them as genuinely as I could based on my own feelings and preferences.

I am generally alright with multi-boxers. I do not plan to do it myself however.

I really enjoy focusing solely on one character and doing my best with him/her. However, that is my play style. I always enjoy when I have a multi-boxer in the group as much as having anyone else.

6 character multi-boxing is just... so lonely. I dunno how anyone would find that fun in such an old game. But again, different strokes for different folks.

I just hope that large multi-boxers have a sense of community and don't lock down needed mobs for various items/quests etc. from the rest of us.

The ability to box or not to box is irrelevant. I think we can agree on that. Also yes every question I posed was genuine. I don't box myself, but I don't quite understand the arguments against them.

Force multiplier is a valid concern. If someone can do more of something than you can. Sure they have an advantage. But what exactly do they have an advantage in?

That's where I'm trying to get to the exact root of the problem. To ensure there is a legit complaint and just not one fueled by envy. For example, I have an advantage they and you do not normally have. I have a MMO gaming mouse. This lets me move my character and use an ability at the same time without tangling up my fingers around the WASD and Number keys.

Could others remap their keys to achieve a similar result (or buy a mouse like mine) Sure.

Could I just use a regular mouse? Absolutely not, I love this thing

In all seriousness though, the ability to use or not use is like in boxing. Its irrelevant. I have an advantage most don't. But I shouldn't be disallowed from doing it.

Now.. I'm not merely trying to make a strawman here. I'm just putting this into perspective. And its not the point I'm trying to make. But what is the actual advantage that boxers get? They can kill faster? They can kill things solo players can't?

I'm going to address that first one. Can they kill faster? How much faster exactly? I've seen boxers kill stuff pretty quickly. But exactly how efficient compared to a solo or even a duo is that? There's a reason boxers love live healers. They've got to manage defenses as a higher priority than offense. That slows them down per thing they are boxing. Most of those characters are buff bots and sit there while one character does all the killing. Sure some can keyclone multiples of a same class. But this is rare (and not even legit by SOE... not sure if Daybreak allows it now since the overhaul, but either way, they're not Blizzard)

And I think the big one is they can 'solo' named that regular solo players cannot. Well here's the issue, if they don't box. You're still not killing the named that you couldn't kill without a group. And if you were in a group, you would kill the named long before they could prep for it if both reached it at the same time.

Sure you could make the argument that they didn't have to sit and form their group. But I have to counter that with, "why is it hard to form a group?"

No seriously, why is it hard? Login to beta, and at your level range, type /who all cleric (or other healer) x y, next do it for a tank, then for whatever other classes you need.

Do they exist? Ok.. if they do, why won't they group with you, or each other? If not, then there's an issue (not related to boxing) that Daybreak needs to look into.

So why aren't these people grouping? Why is during the majority of my time when I come up to a group camped with 3-4 players (not boxed, as they are independently moving) they don't send me an invite? Or even acknowledge my LFG tag, or my existence? Some do.. but many don't.

Not being able to kill named is a symptom of not finding groups. Coincidentally boxing is a symptom of not finding groups, NOT the other way around. In other words, its not that people aren't grouping because they are boxing, its that they are boxing because no one is grouping.

That's why I brought up the LFG issue. People should be using it. People should be grouping. There's content out there that takes groups to kill. So the anti-boxers should be hitting that LFG tool and make boxing obsolete.

And if they are grouping and are legitimately getting blocked by boxers killing all the named. I would definitely start recording this stuff and posting it on youtube and then making a thread showing (the many instances, don't just show one occurrence) the disparity. Reason I say this, is videos tend to tell thousands more words than a pic. And have resulted in the fastest hotfixes MMOs have ever seen, including MMOs developed by Daybreak.

But I'm hard pressed to believe that is actually going on. Solve the grouping issue and you'll solve the majority of the boxing issue. You won't get them all, but as I said, there are very few out there that just don't want to group. And again.. like I said, you wish to group with these people.

My only request is do not be against boxing simply because of envy. If you're going to be against boxing, let it be because its actually causing a real in game issue. And if it is, lets solve it the right way. Not merely call people names, and get them on the defensive (not suggesting you are, but many do fall into this when arguing about the issue). So if there's an issue, lets start compiling evidence in videos, get a compilation going, and post the evidence for the devs to see. Then they can make a choice on what to do from there.

I don't think you're being sincere with this question. I don't want to get into an argument for or against boxing because i'm not interested in coming to an argreement on that (server is allowing boxing, and i'm okay w/ it that its being included). I just want us to come to an understanding that they are both valid ways of viewing this issue.

If you really do care about that question, try and go about it this way:

If you ask people WHY they like boxing, the answers you receive beyond "I like the challenge, and its fun" will inadvertently be the advantages in question here you seek.

The pro's to boxing are very real. It is not a myth.

Let us clarify something. Who actually thinks BOXING is bad? And not just the person behind it.

Having multiple toons to more easily enjoy the game when desirable groups can't be found is why I will 2-box. What I dislike is the stereotyped boxer or solo player or groups that grief, ignore the PnP, abuse the PnP, and in general are just rude a.holes. There are plenty of boxers I wish there were more of and solo players I want less of.

I box because of my playstyle and the often short spirts I can concentrate on EQ .. I work full time and have two kids and have to AFK often.. sometimes for an hour or more..

I would not wish to inflict myself on a group only to go afk or log 2 minutes later because my son has scraped his knee or I look at the clock and realize I have to start dinner.

I find by boxing I can get some progress done on my characters without bothering others or take up my limited time I can play EQ looking for a group.

In the late evenings/weekends I do have a bit more time and I have no problem grouping with others.. I do not 6 box or anything like that so always have room for others . I'll even drop a box to let more people join a camp.