Paladin future needs

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Redemption, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. E'ci - Knight Errant New Member

    I like to try to keep to the presumptive 'image' people would have had in selecting a class.

    I (and I suspect most others) pictured someone mostly focused on physical combat, not spell combat.
    Just because our dps (of what there is) has drifted more to various spells doesn't mean that the trend should continue.

    I remember the Velious re-tune (Warrior baseline 100, Rogue 140, Monk 120, Pal 80),
    We should get back to something approximately this with our all-in undead DPS at a relative 105.
    Dre. and Wulfhere like this.
  2. E'ci - Knight Errant New Member

    I very much dislike tying what I'll call 'balancing buffs' to recourses for currently hardly ever used spell lines. We just end up being very script like where you cast the same 4 self-buff/recourses continually mob after mob.

    I have concerns regarding ae aggro. I can't confirm, but have read that heal aggro is capped and I don't know if that means valiant line would essentially top out and not provide future gains in terms of aggro. In general I think 1 targeted ae, 1 (unlimited target) PBAE, and a fast-cast heal with decent heal aggro should suffice. This is assuming values are appropriate.
  3. Wulfhere Augur

    I believe part of the Dev motive behind this is that strong melee DPS leads to strong swarming ability via ripostes. Single target spell combat doesn't add to that.

    For example, as a tank class, why not add triple riposte to both weapon and shield to increase melee DPS while tanking? Answer, because that would increase swarm tanking ability. Same answer for more damaging defensive proc abilities.
  4. Silverstone New Member

    I really liked the hot added on our stun. How about more abilities added on with each stun?

    Ideas:
    Stun that procs yaulp also.
    Stun that has a heal attached.
    Stun that doubles base damage when one handed for one minute.
    Stun that procs a group cure.

    A random proc off any stun similar to what wizards have in the claw line that gives a random melee damage boost.
  5. E'ci - Knight Errant New Member

    Wulf,

    Although I don't doubt you, I think if that is their argument it is very weak.

    Holding back basic needed and appropriate direct offensive gains due to an objection based around an absurd mechanic (riposting all mobs in frontal arc) is asinine. If absolutely needed for some reason that is simply solved, make ripostes only yield attacks against the current target. Heck, if they still want to preserve it out of nostalgia simply have another toggle mode with a short cool-down.

    I've grown weary with the notion the answer to most things are more buttons to mash to trigger buffs, procs, recourses, etc.
  6. Maedhros Augur

    Hell no. Please leave riposte alone.
    Dre. likes this.
  7. Dre. Augur

    You could probably get away with 120-125.
  8. Kleitus_Xegony Augur

    Just spit-balling, but it sounds to me like you could solve most of that with a spell that works something like this would (I think it's done correctly - using harmonious, splash, earthquake, and crush for examples to mash together):

    Resplendent Burst of Holy Light
    Classes: PAL/110
    Skill: Abjuration
    Mana: 3250
    Target: Self
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0.5s, Recast: 24s, Rest 1.5s
    1: Cast: Resplendent Illumination if Hit By Spell
    2: Limit Target: Single
    3: Limit Caster: Exclude Self
    4: Cast: Resplendent Light

    Resplendent Illumination
    Mana: 10
    Target: Caster PB
    AE Range: 35'
    Resist: Magic -10
    Reflectable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Hate: 960
    1: Decrease Current HP by 2036 (If Not Undead Or Summoned)
    2: Decrease Current HP by 2749 (If Undead)
    3: Decrease Current HP by 2443 (If Summoned)

    Resplendent Light
    Mana: 10
    Target: Caster PB
    Range: 35, AE Range: 35'
    Resist: Beneficial, Blockable: Yes
    Focusable: Yes
    Casting: 0s
    Hate: 960
    1: Increase Current HP by 2361


    A spell like that could be useful in a group situation where you're packed in tight and adds come along - the short range AE aggro + heal. Could also be useful on a raid if mobs aren't being mezzed and potentially deadly if they are (gives a trade-off that they like to build into things). It would still be considerably less powerful (unless I screwed it up) than the War/SK AE aggro tools and has a paladin-ish look to it (fast cast, AE heal, more damage to undead, etc...).

    The question is, do they want to get creative with the spells we get to help cover deficiencies we do have or does it go against their design ideas.
  9. Wulfhere Augur

    Kleitus you're describing a buff that casts a PBAE heal and conditionally casts a PBAE nuke if the paladin is hit by any single target spell cast by another PC/NPC? There is no buff duration (2 minutes?) or you do mean something else? I get the sense that this would turn a paladin into a spell caster booby trap, similar to a defensive/reactive proc buff.
  10. E'ci - Knight Errant New Member

    Kleitus,

    Its just a personal preference, but I would rather avoid even more short duration buffs/recourses.
    I think beacon, lodestar, and valiant can suffice with adjustments to items such as target limits, hate amounts, recast.

    As far as offense goes - there are also a lot of tools there... they just don't move the needle much.
  11. Maedhros Augur


    Nice job guys. Big steaming pile of nerf, with no likely restitution.
  12. Wulfhere Augur

    Huh? Maedhros, if you're referring to the recent patch note about double riposte then notice that was stealth patched last month in September, well before comments in this thread.
  13. Maedhros Augur

    I never saw a stealth nerf, just saw you two's discussion about riposte and then boom nerf.
    If there was a stealth nerf back before your conversation, then sorry!
  14. shiftie Augur

    It would be a huge stretch to think a patch several days after a convo had anything to do with changes anyways. That’s not a hit fix change...
  15. Maedhros Augur

    You must have missed a lot of the topics on the forums that lead to nerfs in the last 18 months.
  16. shiftie Augur

    I meant the time frame...
  17. Allayna Augur

    RK III splash is borked, be aware.

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