Paladin future needs

Discussion in 'Tanks' started by Redemption, Jul 18, 2018.

  1. p8aa Elder

    About mitigation boost

    About instant cast spells
    I didn't find the fortitude like asking, I'm pretty sure to have read it somewhere else but it wasn't in this thread yeah.
  2. p8aa Elder

    I didn't know that Brogh and Fintank were all the other warriors of this game.
  3. Warpeace Augur


    Add hate to the Censure line please. Were still a tank, give us the agro and just play smart. If we really need to heal someone and are worried about agro we have how many single target or group heals available to choose from? I don't see a rear issue for another tank that wants to keep agro on a mob from loosing it if we were using passthrough heals and they all generated agro.

    Crushes and Stuns I believe shared a timer so we had to choose between stun locking and (cough...cough) DPS. This was before our dual purpose nukes were introduced

    Stuns have push because push is fun? Ask bards they love push in their crap. Is it intended to stun the mob immobilizing it generating agro or is it a crappy positioning tool?

    I would not have an issue with Warriors getting a reasonable mitigation boost or some other reactive ability they could use to offset self healing.
  4. Warpeace Augur



    At least they are credible and people know what server and guild they play in.
  5. p8aa Elder

    Don't change of subject because you just have been owned, can you tell us more about all the other warriors that shut me down in this thread ?
    Also Seldom, who is not showing where he plays, is not credible too according to your rule ?
    Anyway, I don't want this thread to be trolled again more, so I'm out of it and won't answer to forumshitquest.
  6. Dreadmore Augur


    Disclaimer: I don't main a paladin. Mine is quite weak right now, at under 15k AAs.
    However, following that post, I took my paladin out to tank a bit in Gorowyn. He surprised me given undergeared and underAAed he is, and I look forward to how well he can hold his own when more developed.

    Mitigation, I don't know, maybe not as great as warriors'? I really don't have a warrior to compare to. I said that mostly going off of what I heard: That paladins have the worst mitigation of the three tanks. But when combined with all the self healing, things worked well enough.
  7. Wulfhere Augur

    I think this is okay as-is, allowing paladins to enable Bold Attacks full-time and not worry about Crush of Povar/E'Ci aggro. That crush is pretty good damage thanks to its long recast and how +spell damage is calculated.

    True that. I still choose stuns over crush in certain AE heavy events where the 20% chance of Healing Light can make a difference. The stronger the raid force, the more you can opt to Crush it.

    I'd say "Bad positioning tool". The Lesson line inherits push from the original Force. It's become the 2nd stun paladins get as they level in a new expansion and has several handicaps (poor resist modifier, long recast, and push) and shares a timer with the max level, slow Crush. I rarely use it other then to have a second effective stun (red cons) while leveling, or push spell (Divine Stun being primary), or third/fourth stun locker at max level when needed. Its poor resist modifier is a reason to max out Immobilizing Bash and Overpowering Strikes AA.
  8. Wulfhere Augur

    I'm pretty sure Paladin and SK have the same base mitigation. The perceived and actual differences are due to their spells and abilities.

    One important point IMO: Because of the way brief stuns affect NPC melee timing, paladins are subject to more frequent and bigger damage spikes, when tanking multiple mobs, then the other two tanks. In simple terms, paladin tanking ability doesn't scale horizontally as well as the other two tanks because of this mechanic (combined with relatively long cast times on two of the ToT heals: Censure and Protective). All three ToT heals have 5s+ recast times too so one needs to memorize two of them in order to spam heal themselves, e.g. Valiant plus Censure (danger! it's easy to resist) or Protective.
  9. Warpeace Augur



    Maybe you can clarify that a bit. Since Paladin received Bold attacks I have never turned it off, never been a reason if your competing for agro. Your comment sounds like other tanks playing soft with agro? You still have to use all your agro abilities to maintain solid agro.
    Allayna likes this.
  10. Brassar New Member

    If your going to ask for something why not ask for reduced recast on crush... Your harmonious is a single target lock based on heals. And you variant of mortal coil be either a stun by attack or % to exceptional heal. That would help a bunch. Ae aggro would be a loss to splash ability. All those interrupts.
  11. Allayna Augur

    There is a 1% difference iirc, benefiting the SK.

    Honestly bud, I think I've asked for reduced cast time on crush and for it to be un-linked from our stun line. I've posted a couple of times regarding reduction of cast on crush. As far as a quality of life improvement, since we are supposed to be like uberweiss stun masters....I think a no dmg AE stun spell would be appropriate, let it have a long re-use, like 18-24 seconds. Discuss.
  12. Brohg Augur

    Crushes only exist at all as an alternative to the stun spells for agro on non-stunnable content. That's why they share both timers and names. Just like bards have non-pushback nukes, and like shm have fast & slow dots that don't stack, and like berserkers' defensive abilities share timers with their offensive ones. There's a pair of timers you can play with, either getting from them a little damage plus a stuns, or a little more damage plus some raw agros.
  13. Allayna Augur

    What?!

    Crush is a hate override, the only hate override a paladin has.

    So. Compared to say, terror line, what grey's out on an SK bar if a terror is used?

    The answer is nothing.
  14. shiftie Augur

    Brogh is 100% correct. Crushes were created to be used on non stunnable content in sod and they gave the a small damage flavor as a dinner scrap to the lowly dps ouput in SoD.

    The game has evolved a bit but they still only exist for that purpose. What is the terror equivalent? Just because we hate stuns in modern content doesn’t mean you can forego the evolution of the class. The linked timers make sense and in that we well... still can stun - which is another topic all to itself. I’ve been arguing against it for years because it is zero sum. If it works op if it doesn’t useless. Unfortunately they tie stun to everything we do because “flavor” but then design content in the zero sum world.

    Brassar commented on reduced recast not reduced cast times. Crush recast doesn’t need reduced as the aggro is balanced around it. The cast times need reduced to instant with the recast times they won’t suddenly become overpowered aggro or dps because the recast limits them but it would let us do our aggro thing when game mechanics “getting hit” limits our ability to cast. 110 levels later we should have figured it out
    mmats likes this.
  15. Allayna Augur

    I did misinterpret what Brassar said. I read it as reduced cast time. As far as stuns.....313 immune to stun messages in current content in a night clear of RoS. And I don't load many stuns anymore, likely just Dicho that caused that.
  16. Allayna Augur

    Lots of suggestions about AoV.

    I'm okay with it killing the paladin.

    Let's make it similar to reaver's bargain, drains mana/end, acts like a mitigation...but if you drop below the mana/end, instead of it wiping the remaining m/e, it kills you!
  17. Wulfhere Augur

    I have never turned BA off either and I bet that is true of most if not all paladins.

    My point is that during a burn where a paladin is chain nuking, and not tanking, the Censure line can help to keep you for stealing aggro, and continuing to spot heal the main tank, even in the face of using a Crush as part of your burn. If your raid can afford you to not spot heal like that then you're going drop that spell in favor of more of the Remembrance line (ala Shiftie) or a big Crush. So it's situational and I like having options to fit the situation.
  18. Wulfhere Augur

    I don't see any data for what that might be, what ability is that?
    Sheex likes this.
  19. Wulfhere Augur

    Sorry, not true. Paladin stun spells since level 65 Ancient Force of Chaos have hate override. Other "tagging" spells do as well like Audacity line. Also many AA do: Force of Disruption, Divine Stun, DP, Beacon, Lodestar.
  20. Wulfhere Augur

    Also true that. The devs worked in timers 4, 5, and 6 to allow for one free stun on timer 4 and a choice of stun/crush on timers 5 and 6. That play style option remains to this day and has been prolonged, for some, by Healing Light AA.

    The zero sum design is especially fierce and hostile (to paladins) when the devs also go with instacast NPC abilities (nothing to interrupt with a well timed stun). Nothing fun here.

    For many players, they see stuns as obsolete as a play style and you might wonder why paladins go "Gee look at SKs succeeding without stuns?". It's been a forced comparison since stun immunity was farmed out to most NPC ad nauseum and level caps introduced.

    Then Crush itself gave way to the unlocked power of the Last Rites line, but that's another tale.