New players - pick a knight if you aren't a boxer

This thread is like watching a trump speech. It's horrible in every way but it still goes on.

It's not a nerf to knights, it's a call to fix back tank class balance, who is overpowered in favor of knights atm. There are 2 ways : either buff warrior % again to make a difference, but it's not good for other non tank classes, or reduce knight %. This last one is simply the best fix for the current problem atm.

You really are a bad player aren't you?

Seriously, you need to shut up because you are doing worse for the warrior cause than battleblade does. You make vague complaints, when asked to back them up, refuse to do so, and instead double down on vague complaints, then toss in completely incorrect information, and when people ask you for a very specific thing for a very specific claim you make, you refuse to do so.

There is ONE parse on this thread comparing warrior and sk dps. Posted by an SK it shows warriors out-dpsing sks, disputing your claim. You refuse to post anything to support your statement.

Its hard for me to post parses from our SKs (not that I would post any guild parses without permission anyway), because we have at most 1 on a raid a night and they aren't dpsing. However, we often have 6+ warriors on every night, meaning several do get to dps almost every event. I wonder why that is?

It is really simple. Provide proof or shut up about it.

Why don't you provide proof. I know SK out dps warrior, everyone else knows SK out dps warrior, your not claiming they don't. I don't even know what your point is. You don't have parses, you won't post parses, you don't use parseing, any parse that is posted that doesn't support your opinion you will just say is because of bad players. Again, if you think SK out dps warriors, just type that out. I don't give a Fuch if 100x battleblades say anything they want to say, if that causes warriros to get nerfed into oblivion, I'll play another class. I think people should be able to speak their mind, with out that translating into people saying a class is going to get nerfed because of that persons opinion.

Kind of disappointing to see this is the mindset of someone from one of the top guilds still on EQ. I don't know why I assumed they would have more enlightened and balanced views.

Knights needed some sort of boost previous to this stance debacle, copy/paste warrior stances onto them was not the right answer and now things are out of balance. You posted you think that if knights aren't with in 5% base mitigation of warriors, in addition to having all their self healing, that the game is out of balance. Thats absurd but your welcome to your opinion.

edit: for a parse to be at all meaningful, it has to indicate what the group composistion was, what adps was actively being casted, what the mechanics of the event were, what buttons were being mashed, what happened during the event, what was the role of the sk/warr your trying to show a parse for. Long story short, you can post a little soandso did x% dps in y amount time and make it show anything you want, if you post it as if it all happened in a vacuum or on a test dummy, unfortunately that shows nothing and means nothing in the real world. You want proof? watch some streams of raids and look at what is happening and who is doing what.

You are still whining. And worse, you are offering no ideas or solutions. For that matter you are also not providing parses and merely suggesting knights need nerfed. Please be productive. Please provide suggestions. Please provide parses (else at least coherent sentences) to support your arguments. Either way, stop whining. You are going to be that guy that ends up giving all warriors a bad name. Kind of like Battleblade, though I believe that comparison has already been made.

I have plenty of parses. I won't post my best pre-TDS parses because people will call for warrior DPS nerfs without knowing what they're looking at, like they did with Lilth opportunistic strike parses 5 yrs ago. I won't post my TBM parses because will claim they're low because they're cherry picked and/or I suck. I won't post others' parses since it's not appropriate to do that, but I know what tanks of all classes I raid with do (honestly, I question if you can say the same Aba.)

No matter how you slice it, the following is true:

1. Warriors were effected the most by the raid mob mitigation buffs last year, SKs were effected the least
2. SKs were the least effected by nerfs to tank DPS the past 5 years and have slowly been creeping up, and since the mitigaiton buff, SK DPS relative to other tanks has never been as strong as it is now vs raid bosses, at least since I've been raiding as a war
3. Paladins are most self sufficient thus can put good numbers from tank groups, yet some paladins live in bizarro world and spin warriors aDPS-dependency as a strength for warriors, weakness for pals.

Are you whining about tank DPS?
Are you whining about tank mitigation?
Are you whining about both?

Please clarify exactly what you are trying to say here?

I was talking about the mitigation buffs that mobs received last year, not players. I added "raid mob mitigation" to my post to reflect that.

My DPS outside of raids isn't remotely indicative to my DPS on TBM raids, due to the very high mitigation on the mobs.

I hear you saying " Warriors need more Dps". The problem is, I don't think you do. If you want more Dps, there are classes that generate more DPS. There are lots of them. If you want to be a tank ( knowing that your DPS will suck) there are 3 classes that match that description. if you want to be there biggest, beefiest tank possible, with the most mitigation, there is one class that matches that description. Wait.... you already play that class.

In that case you have 2 options, accept that your DPS will suck, or switch to a DPS class.

I don't see any issue with warriors having short term big dps boosts that have a negative to tanking. Why not? They are supposed to be the masters of weapons and gives them something to do when they aren't tanking. I am not sure why anyone would argue that. Something that every 10 mins or so, they get a big boost for 1 min or so but with a mitigation hit so they cant use it while tanking. That way it could be tuned that sk are top sustained, war are top burst and pallys are tops against undead. In the end, its not going to be huge anyway, because we are tanks, not dps and will never match dps classes by any stretch.

I already posted MY PARSES in several situations on this very thread. You have posted nothing.

Any warrior can go do the same parse on the same situations and do the comparisons.

Heck, considering the nature of my "non-adps augmented parse" (dummy in guild hall so all the short term buffs/discs were up 100% of the time) I made it easy enough for someone to go "your dps is too high as a paladin." by purposefully ignoring that point.

You and kamea are pathetic. You basically have ZERO evidence to support your statements. Your response to asking for support is, "I don't wanna, but what I say is true". Pathetic, and pretty funny. Guess what? In case you weren't aware, whining over and over without any factual information doesn't get the devs to listen to anything you say. So if you feel like a second class citizen tank, then get used to it, because if you are the best warriors have to offer the devs for justification for modification of the current status quo, you are going to get jack and squat to make things better for warriors.

I already talked plenty about DPS on this thread, so my thoughts are out there. Anyways. Under my ideal plan the "best" warrior parse possible would actually be lower. I actively lobby for one of the most important abilities for the "best" parses to be revamped/nerfed, Heroic Blade.

Our toolkit simply isn't suited to DPSing high mitigation mobs from a tank group. I could give 2 craps about a 40s parse padded by shaman epiced heroic blade vs a old trivial mob, yet that is how warrior DPS is seemingly balanced. I care a lot more about warrior DPS being less aDPS and RNG dependent than I care about raising epeen parses.

Then why are you whining about DPS at all?

Because they bounce from thing to the next never ending.

First of all, no one plays a tanking class for DPS. I don't care what my SK is doing for dps, as long as he stays upright.

Secondly, warriors are still the best tank, period. For the next expansion, what class do you think they will balance the raid mobs with?? That's right they will use a warrior as their base, because they are the strongest tanks still. You guys make it sound like all of a sudden knights are tanking better than warriors. It was ridiculous before being a tank that couldn't tank. You simply can not have a wide gap in tank-ability for the tank classes. Utility can be different and separate the classes, but warriors had a completely crazy tanking advantage, that all but killed a knights main role.

The first fact here is you are a liar. You keep repeating your lies and even admit that you will not back up your assertions with actual data. The second fact here is your idea of how the tanks should compare to one another is deformed and has no place in EQ whatsoever.

Interesting I raid in a few different groups, raid daily, see what happens in raids, yet I have no "proof" of what I'm seeing. Why I need proof anyway? Am I the game designer? Do I get paid off everquest? If they want to make it into a BS game nobody wants to play how is that my issue? Why do I need to prove anything to you?

Why do I gotta offer solutions? HERE IS THE SOLUTION MAKE WARRIORS MITIGATE MUCH BETTER THEN KNIGHTS LIKE THEY HAVE BEFORE. There, am I still not offering the solution? How is this even my issue to solve? Did i make this change to the game? Am I a game designer. If you give knights warrior level tanking and they keep all their knight spells and abilities, of course knights are going to be way overpowered in relation to warriors. That is the entire start middle and end of this conversation, and its not my issue, cuz i already resigned to the fact that, if i feel like playing at all, i will play on a knight.

It is your issue to solve and your place to offer solutions due to you being the one whining about it.
Warriors will no longer mitigate much more than knights. Accept this, and move on. Warriors still tank better than knights, though by less of a margin than they previously enjoyed. If you truly wish to play a knight now, enjoy not tanking raid bosses, and kindly stop whining. If you wish to continue playing a warrior, enjoy tanking raid bosses, and kindly stop whining.

I don't get why when knight abilities stack better with the warrior stance, since there abilities weren't designed with it in mind, why you say warrior tank better. And, why can't knights tank bosses? they take the hits better, so just in your theory they shouldn't tank bosses or?