Necro swarm pets since the patch

It doesn't focus from what I can see. I have one low level damage spell that uses 79 and it didn't get a damage boost, but it may be because of something else idk.

Guess I'm wrong about them, then. My bad.

You really cant figure out what will happen until after changes are made there are simply to many variables. No one knows what the reaction to those changes will be until after we know what the changes are.

Current level 101-105 Necro DoT range from 12 seconds on swifts to 24, 30, 42, 48, 54, 120, 120+ on non swifts. Add eight ticks to non swifts and a single tick to swifts. Recent Dich DoT is the shortest non swift DoT. All the DoT have roughly a three second cast recast delay cycle meaning 72 seconds divided by 3 equals 24 casts between refreshing the shortest duration DoT in a non swift rotation. Swapping spells is about a three second process as well so it eats up time and is why you don't see many rotation over 20-21 DoTs in use.

The best option they have for using the time between refreshing DoTs are swift DoT. Swifts DoT have a 24 second recast delay and a 18 max duration they would eat up three extra casts every 24 seconds and nine total casts every 72 seconds. That would be 9+9 casts of a max potential of 24 casts. This was how things worked prior to them nerfing swifts on raids and it was that nerf to swifts that caused the massive increase in use of spell swapping.

The above of course is a massive oversimplification. Necro DoT's are simply very hard to wrap your brain around all the variables. The most likely outcome in any change to necro DoT's is almost certainly going to be a train wreck. Ether necro's will end up very over powered or they will end up very under powered. That is the reason why talk of changing necro epic has been floating around for about five years now but hasn't happened yet. Because no one really knows what the results will be.

That isn't true in the slightest. If all things remain constant it's very easy for someone that has a deep understanding of the Necromancer class to work out the change to your overall dps. It's the same as when Rains were nerfed and a handful of Mages that day were able to break down the loss. They might not know what their class dps maxes out at, but they definitely understand the percentages. If you understand current raid events and look at logs, it's possible. The reason nothing has been done is the poop flinging that comes around every time nerfing your 2.5 has been mentioned.

Awhile back Beimeith and I both ran parses on the 2.5 and Necromancer dps (my parses were prompted by the MS necro that said his 2.5 didn't increase crit chance above the 2.0). My parse was so long Beimeith had to fix some errors in gamparse so we could even load it (iirc some things were still in 32bit and he upgraded everything to 64bit, ask him if you're interested). I know several Necromancers that could, in a short time, understand the ramifications/already do; they found the % difference with MB and GoDR changes. Hell, even I could/would if it was getting nerfed and nothing else would change. It's math. As long as things remain constant, we, as a community, will figure it out. I'm not saying everyone understands the top numbers about their class, but, again, they can understand the percentage difference that can/will occur.

I am in no way advocating for a nerf, currently, to the 2.5; especially with the GoDR nerf. But, seriously, don't pretend we can't do math, and the Necromancer class is so enigmatic that we can't figure it out. I could post log after log on how to DPS on your class; I don't out of respect for some friends (they fear more nerfs). Honestly, finding Waldo would take more time and effort.

Edit:

Bit off topic but the reason our epic wasn't removed previously is because for at least our epic the devs finally understood what impact it had and at that time they left it alone. When it was on the chopping block, not that it isn't anymore, they believed it was a 40-45% increase to our dps in all scenarios that continued to grow in power each year. Until we had to prove to them that it is in fact only a 15-16% boost (with 2.5) to sustained that remains flat forever. We also had to painfully go back and forth on how worn crit rate essentially was identical to AA crit rate in that if you added 10% via AA its no different than if you added an item with 10% worn.

However regarding these new changes we simply can't mathematically figure out the impact until we know the details of the changes. We have no clue how much damage will be added per dot line, how much mana cost per cast, how or if AA lines are on the block for changes, how or if items are on the block for changes. So it very much is anyones guess at this point. The only thing we know with 100% certainty is they don't fully understand necromancers as evidenced by numerous changes and almost changes that have occurred in the past 5 years. So please don't tell us this will be a smooth calculated ride as it will be anything but.

I literally never addressed the upcoming dot changes. I addressed the following quote:

If everything remains a constant, which is what I said, and only the epic is changed, it's very easy to find the percentage loss. As soon as dot number changes are released, it will, also, be very easy to find the change in percentage values. I didn't tell you that it will be a smooth calculated ride when it comes to the dot changes. If you're going to address something I am talking about, address what I am talking about; don't put words into my mouth.

I would have quoted you had my post been aimed at you Enkel. I touched on some stuff you mentioned but was posting more in general on the matter for the people saying stuff like "this change should be great for necros as they will have their burst enhanced and gameplay simplified" without realizing there for sure will be a cost to necromancers for these changes. We just won't know what it will be until we get the specifics.

I thought it was aimed directly at me, my apologies. On the topic of change, I'm not looking forward to Necromancers getting another overhaul in their play style. What I mean by that is MB was changed for dots (everyone saw that coming), but then GoDR was nerfed. This now forces Necromancers to change their play style. So, if dots are changed again, that means, I don't know the exact timeline for these changes coming to Necromancers, again we have to change our play style. Already Necromancers have, in my opinion, the most difficult rotation (can we even call it that with how sporadic it can be!?) in maybe all MMO's (I have played a lot, like most of us have). To be forced to change again, in such a, possibly, short time just leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

The impression I'm getting is, if it follows Beastlords, they're simplifying Necromancers. This makes it a more inviting class, per se, but forces veterans to change what they do. Some raiding Necromancers I know love the fact they have to stack 23+ dots to pump out as much dps as possible. They take pride that they're better at managing their dots than lesser skilled players.

On another note, though, if Necromancers use less slots on a mob, that means more people can use dots, if they're worth it; or more Necromancers can join a raiding guild since the debuff slots won't be as "gated". So I have to agree with you, it will be tenuous until the numbers are released so they can be crunch. Mathematically finding the changes is easy, but to some the style of Necromancer is also a draw to the class.

http://elitegamerslounge.com/home/calculator/EQ_Spell_Damage_Calculator.xlsm

100% accurate in terms of calculating damage. The preset values are old though. I need to update those one of these days.

double post

triple post

I just tested out Envenomed Bolt:

Shaman (49) - Necromancer (50)

Slot 1: Increase Poison Counter by 10
Slot 2: Decrease Current Hit Points by 110
Slot 3: Decrease Current Hit Points by 146 per tick

Without poison focus, the DD portion was hitting for 134 every time. With poison focus, the DD portion was hitting for 210-251. I would definitely say that focus effects worked on the DDs of these older DoTs. Maybe it has something to do with what slot each is in?

I'll have to check when I get home, but I believe I was seeing the same as you and Illa. Will pull up parser later.

I checked it and got the same numbers. The DD portion on this line of DoTs gets focused.

Not much to say about the proposed changes as they relate to Necros until there are more details and some hard numbers to crunch specifically for the class. Too many existing and possible variables to make cross class comparisons.

No its not. First they have promised necro's they wont just nerf epic that the change will be compensated. Two even a rudimentary understanding of Necro burst and sustained would inform you that a 18% reduction in crit rate will impact those two aspects of necro DPS differently.

If you increase necro sustained to make up for the loss of that 18% crit then necro burst will increase dramatically. If you keep burst roughly the same sustained will drop dramatically.

Simply put its is not a easy change. Yes once you make the change the necro class will adapt rapidly to it as hundreds of necro's try different things out. But the likely hood of a few people actually figuring out all the angles before the change is made is close to zero.

I don't know about you, but yes there are necro's that day that will find out the percentage differences and adapt.

Yes and it will not be to what the designers of the change intended.

I didn't say necro's wont figure it out. I said people like you that think they know better wont actually understand what the changes they are making will have in actual effect.

Now be quite and go away.

Enkel is not our enemy here. Arguing if players can figure out game play styles and % changes (for whenever the raw data does come out) is pointless.

Right now, we need to be making a case, explaining how we envision the future of the class. It looks like linking DoTs will be inevitable at this point. DBG's goal is to solve the debuff cap issue and possibly the spell swapping issue.

The obvious choices are swarms, swifts, and nukes.

The problem is ether intentionally are unintentionally they seem to be doing everything possible to make the above choices not work.

Why is spell swapping during raids considered an issue in the first place? I've yet to chat with a leet raid necro who hates formulating which spells to swap and in what order for a certain event. This is the fun of the class! If this is an issue for anyone there are plenty of other classes to play that require much less time and attention to detail.

I cringe at certain posts that ask for the ability to land our best DoT multiple times at once on a target. Spamming the same spell gem simply isnt fun for most of us.

Spell swapping is not an issue to hardcore necros. It is an issue with DBG. And it looks like they have already made their decision, but luckily, this time we can add input before a 1 week test patch goes live.