Necro swarm pets since the patch

All I've literally talked about is math. If someone like you doesn't understand math, and how EQ calculates the values we see when we hit dots and spells, that's your problem. Seriously, I don't even know how you can argue what you're, and attempt to hold your ground. It's such a fragile argument. I'm not arguing future implementation that they haven't released the numbers for, I'm arguing, with you, about math; Necromancers are not so mysterious, math wise, that we can't figure it out if we are given a change, and a constant value is given. It amazes me you can sit there and try to argue I don't know what I'm talking about. It's like when people pretend parses that aren't 5 years long don't have any empirical value.

Your failure to admit you don't know everything is enough to establish your basic arrogance on the topic

The math is easy but it is all the different variables that will trip you up.

But I find your constant strawman arguments boring so I'm done responding to you.

In combat spell swapping is simply horrible game design and a embarrassment to the Dev's of this game.

EQ necromancers are one of the worst designed classes in mmog history in there current raid form.

Someone should make a youtube that actually shows how raid necromancers function on raids and then submit it for review to major video design conferences as a example of how not to design a class.

To my knowledge I have never in this thread said I know everything about Necromancers. Find that, and I'll admit I'm wrong. You're the one using a Straw Man argument to not directly respond to what I'm saying. Give me these variables so that we can have an intelligent debate instead of you sidestepping my stance. It's easy to dismiss someone because you cannot defend yourself, then end emphatically saying "I'm done responding to you." It's a cop out. I have stated over and over if nothing changes save the epic, it's easy to find the percentage difference. Also, how is my argument a Straw Mans argument? Saying that empirical data can show the percentage difference is not a Straw Mans argument. If you're going to use a term that generally arises when there are two opposing opinions, at least use it properly.

You're the one assuming that I'm not knowledgeable about this game, or it's systems. I believe you're making this assumption due to your quote above: "The math is easy but it is all the different variables that will trip you up." What variables? I'm talking about one focused change. Overall DPS is dependent on many variables. I'm talking about one variable, the 2.5 epic change. The other things remain unchanged (no coding change); they're only affected now by the variable that was intentionally changed.

Now, if the developers increased the level cap by 5 levels that would be different. With that level increase comes new gear, AA's, and spells; a plethora of new/varied interactions. The only unforeseeable change that could come with the 2.5 is something wrong with coding. But then we could say we never know what's going to happen because spaghetti code. That's, in my opinion, a weak argument. Though a times it can be valid it's also dismissive of the communities', and the developer's, ability to find optimization.

I happen to think I'm decently knowledgeable; my main is a Magician and that class I will debate anyone and feel 100% confident I can defend my points and persuade them to my point of view, if their view is different. Though, admittedly, I normally goof around and talk about mana rods unless something that requires a direct response arises. I use empirical data to show my point, not anecdotal evidence. I don't go around talking about bards, rangers, enchanters, clerics, etc... like they're my main and I know everything about them. Now, there is the caveat that if it pertains to Mages and a adps interaction with another class, I do, usually, believe I am more knowledgeable than the vast majority of the community; even said mains of another class. When I talk about a subject, normally, I'm well informed. Show me evidence of your point, and I might believe you. You've shown zero evidence to why you're credible about this subject, so your stance is fallible at this point.

Back on topic about Necromancer swarm pet changes, it sucks from a grouping perspective. I hope the changes to dots helps a Necromancers situation in group content, while also leaving them as viable as they currently are on raids. A lot of testing will need to be done and feedback, like Shennron indicated.

Edit after 2 seconds: I double Quoted.

Disagree completely. I will give you requiring 24 dots in raids is stupid but we should have to use at least 15. If you want to do the exact same thing for every raid using a single spell bar of a few spells you can already find a few mind numbingly boring classes to scratch your itch. How about we leave one class that rewards real time adjustments and maximizing knowledge of the class on the go for those that love that play.

I love that this class requires skill and knowledge to play at its max level all of which come into play in real time. If your in a group you do this, if your in a fast kill group you have to adjust and do that instead. In a raid if your killing this mob you start doing this only to realize dps is slow that night so you have to change on the fly a bit and do something else. To me this makes the class so rewarding without making it a "twitchy" who can push buttons faster class. You have to completely understand the class inside and out to be able to change your strat as the fight proceeds. You also have to keep at your peak the entire time which to many of us is very appealing and what keeps the game interesting. I would fall asleep if timing a bunch of stuff for 90 seconds was all that mattered and I then resorted to auto attack and a click every 60 seconds or if I just spammed 3-4 spells multibinded to one key. Necros essentially had stances before stances were added to this game. They are often times mutually exclusive due to recast timers and such blocking necros from swapping on the fly instantly to them but we have a group stance, a fast group stance, we have a burst stance, we have a maximize our sustained stance, we have a kiting or root rot stance, we have a support our group in other ways stance. The class was amazing hopefully they don't break that fact.

Necros also are the only class that maintain what Everquest used to do right in my opinion in regards to items. Massive quests that rewarded the adventurer with some amazing item that maintains its value forever. There are numerous clicks and toys that are still sough after for having value to the class to this day never mind our epic. Having these older items maintain their value or use is exactly what this game needs to start doing again rather than trying to remove it entirely leaving only the hamster wheel of gear resets since its easy to tune. Having to use our epic to boost dps at the expense of modern day stats and focus effects are exactly the type of choices this game needs to embrace again.

Not only is downtime a concern for the raiding necro with these changes, but also immunities or resistances. This will further limit what the necro can do on raids. Even in TBM, we have lots of events that restrict the necros line up. Boromas is immune to poison in the third phase. Anashti Sul: Decay in both raids heals whenever a disease or corruption spell is cast.

What is the Devs vision for necros? How do they plan to overcome these obstacles?

Indeed, we don't cast nukes that add damage with every cast. We cast DoTs, that if we recast them before they are about to expire is just a waste of mana and adds Zero damage. So mobs that resist one or two of our lines of damage will degrade our effectiveness a lot, even with higher powered DoTs, if we cannot stack lower level spells.

..and here we see everyone gathering who cares

Swarm pets!....wait, that's not it.....Nukes!

I'm guessing they'll have two separate lines for your Pyre spells. One with "Pyre of" and "Pyre of the" should be different lore groups. One is Max Level -1 (the better one) and one is Max Level -2. Then they'll have a lore group for the shadow line. That makes 3 fire lines.

I wouldn't be surprised if the made a new lore group of fire, poison, magic, corruption, disease for you guys in the future.

I'll take the Devs' backs on this one. Spell swapping is fun as hell. The complexities presented due to the ability to use so many spells are what keeps many of us playing EQ. The challenge is real....many of us love it.

Take away my spell swapping and dumb my class down and I'll play a different game. /shrug

I have an issue with someone so biased taking control of the parse program that is being widely used, and also using that data to take to the devs for nerfs..

99% of EQ players aren't programmers, so you skewing a minor digit, or algorithm in GP could skew those numbers to win favor for what you want done..

This is complete and utter BS, but congrats, you've licked enough dev butt to get your way.

Are you actually doing this? I sure hope not, if you are.......

anyway, no idea why you've always been so in this game, never have I seen someone whine and want so many things their way and fight tooth and nail to get them...

I used to care who I offended on these forums, but given that I've quit this game multiple times over the last few years.. IDGAF!!

Amend brother, I hear ya.

I'm going to be the weird person to defend Beimeith, cause I can. I know every necro would downvote me if possible, so at least be creative with your verbal barrage, I beg you.

The same data he used before when he talked to the devs? Beimeith is much more "tame" than he used to be, due to a number of factors.

Use an older version of gamparse, if you have it, to parse things if you don't trust him. It's amazing the amount of conspiracy people put around him. He's almost Watergate status at this point.

Completely uncalled for, but I'm sure he got a good laugh out of it.

Highly doubtful. He might take every blow for blow, but he cares about the reputation he has about being right. I'm fairly certain it's more intrinsic than anything. He can't be right if he's "cheating" numbers. If you know him, you'd understand that. I'm not saying you need to know him, and frustration is a given, but you guys give him way too much credit for his sway with the devs. The developers have a mind of their own, and make choices accordingly. Trust me, if the game was a ball of clay for Beimeith to sculpt it would be much different than it is now (as in, I'd enjoy the balance more than it currently is). He's argued for boosts while classes have got nerfs, and half the crap people get pissed at him for he's right about; cause you know, it's just math.

I've seen plenty of people "complain" (which really, in this context, seems to denote voice their opinion) more than him. He isn't near as vocal as he used to be, nor is his play time high enough for him to "complain" as much as people make it out. A lot of posts I see from him usually involve numbers. I mean, at least he provides evidence for his opinion instead of people saying "It should be this way because I feel it, and it's an injustice beyond belief cause I don't agree with it". People don't thank him when he helps get something fixed that was broken and needed attention; it's only when he points out something is unbalanced (as in OP), from a design perspective, that people lose control of their mental faculties and act as though he's trying to steal their significant other.

I'm sure that his feelings were deeply hurt, and I'll make sure to recommend someone for him to see so he can cope with the trauma.

Edit: Fixed/Clarified a sentence.

Gamanarn, the original creator of GamParse, still has full access to the source code, as does Rumstil, the owner of Raidloot.com and the creator of the EQ Spell/AA Parser. They can easily verify the source code if there is any doubt to its accuracy or integrity.

Additionally I keep copies of the .exes on my website so I can run comparison tests myself when people say "it doesn't work right compared to the old version." You are more than welcome to do the same if you feel the need. They are available here: http://www.elitegamerslounge.com/home/gamparse

Note that I don't keep a copy of each and every single revision, (though I probably should), just the latest revision of each major update.

You seem unsure whether it's my fault or not. I guess when you finish deciding, let me know?

I direct you to the newest comment in my signature courtesy of Iila!

Guy, I'd have to know and care who you are first before you'd even have a chance at offending me.

I don't question Beimieths math. But to say he cares about balance is completely false. He is just like most people and fights for his agenda. Again to anyone with common sense they see through his hypocrisy in his claim for balance.

I really am not feeling your pain here. Tanks die to trash mobs with a merc healer.
Bring a real healer.

I am fully on board with your complaints about the dps and necro nerfs beyond this - they suck.

typical response from someone with a god complex, I don't post much on this little games little forums, so no one knows who I am, therefore, they look passed, which is perfectly fine.. your response is so expected, and generic..


I seem to have pushed a button... butt hurt much?

carry on your day whining for nerfs, that's your forte.. karma is a

as for the other garbage you spewed in this reply of yours.. that's all fine and dandy, I'm not the one who warranted the community thinking this way about you. you did this all to yourself!

Not god complex, godfather complex. Haven't you seen my avatar? (From the old forums, they don't allow custom ones here, the communists).

You're in Beimeith's world now!