Learn the Enchanter Class before you tamper with it

Discussion in 'Casters' started by Maxxbuff, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. Sancus Augur

    Slightly tangential, but looking at ability usage in my guild, basically every Mage/Wizard (myself included) forgot that Cataclysm is now important on burns... I think it'll be at least a week or two until people finish changing lineups to accommodate the recent changes, so my guess is many people's parses will get noticeable increases as that gets ironed out (even if the increase is only from mobs dying faster).
    RPoo and Silv like this.
  2. Maxxbuff Journeyman

    Here is mine: 3rd spire, Empowered focus, Cal insanity, IOG, Chaze, Glyph of Cata.... (mindsunder, mindcleave, minscythe spam) of course I use twincast and mana reciprocation
  3. Random_Enchanter Augur


    ermm imma ask two stupid questions here i do apologize for them in advanced though.
    #1) BW = black wolf right?
    #2) if your running ITC shouldn't the additional damage from Amp aura be used while it is up? Yes you lose the single spell cast but you gain 128% spell damage while ITC is running (2 spells for 16 casts at 4% boost per)
    Jordis likes this.
  4. Sancus Augur

    Edit: Oops, misunderstood, ignore me
  5. Silv Augur

    1. Yes.
    2a. I'm Lazy.
    2b. I'm always with the Mages so, see 2a.

    But yeah, you are more or less correct.

    With stacking you should try and ask your friendly group Druid to always run Frostweave aura now (if they aren't). Both will proc simultaneously after the change (whereas before Mana flare was superior).
  6. Maxxbuff Journeyman

    I will certainly implement those changes. Thank you. This also explains some of the discrepancy in what I'm seeing. I am going on the Enchanter's abilities alone, not if the enchanter has druid and other's abilities added to them. So, the way I am looking at it, is if I walk up to the combat dummy and go full out for several minutes, by myself, or if an enchanter is in a group of just melee on vitio, then they will see a significant drop from what it was before the changes. It may be because of chromatic haze coupled with IOG changes, I am not sure.
  7. RPoo Augur

    Magna fulgia with bone shards of frozen marrow and ancient diamond spellcharm, fine silk sash, range item with SaNril's sympathetic stone, combine power shard, replica of the qeynos claymore, trophy of the seafarer, trophy of the waste, aura of the void 2, ancient hedgewizard brew, MR aura frostweave aura, AMP aura, arcane melody, aria of maetanrus.
    iog, fierce eye, black wolf, glyph of the cataclysm, mana charge, calculated insanity, forced haze, ITC, empowered Arcanum thingy.
    tash, cripple, MC, EM, flowing etheric mindlock robe, mindsunder, rune of tallon, mindcleave, forceful rejuvenation, mindsunder, banestrike, mindcleave, necromantic dragon bone, mindscythe, bottled essence of vex, mindsunder -till ITC is down- */edit* if you're lucky enough to have the xorrb twincast clicky use it after itc is gone */end edit*
    back out and chaotic mez an eye, mindsunder, mindcleave, mez, nuke till dead.
    Did I miss anything other than meleeing?
    Mintalie, Sancus, Spellfire and 2 others like this.
  8. RPoo Augur

    Shiney Bob
    Mintalie likes this.
  9. Random_Enchanter Augur

    pet buff Bob with the new pet buff and all longer duration combat illusions since the procs all stack now they should all stack as well


    rename bob into <insert necro/wizzy/rogue/monk name's here>
    RPoo likes this.
  10. Silv Augur

    Which?
  11. RPoo Augur

    NDT obviously! /cackle
  12. Silv Augur

    Guess I need to learn the Enchanter class. He said "long duration" though so I was excluding those... :p
  13. Silv Augur

    Follow up (sorry for double post):

    NDT and Garou don't stack with Mammoth's Force (which is +164 Attk and +11% damage mod on all skills). I don't see the procs being sufficient to justify using them over that. If you have no Shaman buffs... then okay.

    Trickster's doesn't stack with Empowered Minion so that automatically disqualifies it under any circumstance IMO.

    It was a fun idea though!
  14. Sheex Goodnight, Springton. There will be no encores.

    What about swarm pet clickies? The Barb's one from PoWar, the rabbit from loyalty, the cloth hat from anniversary, etc etc? And don't forget Baelfire Gem and wasn't the vish quest reward for ench a nuke too? ;)
  15. Random_Enchanter Augur


    there all used if you have them.

    though you save the rabbit clickie for dueling warriors to hold them at purple for 20 min and finally finish them off with it. The you illusion rabbit and do evil things to there corpse while taking Screen shots to be posted on your guild's front page later.:D;)
    RPoo likes this.
  16. RPoo Augur

    I'm not very good with formulas but actually I think that if you use poly assault instead of mindsythe you come out ahead in terms of being able to save enough time to be able to cast an extra mindsunder or cleave depending on the duration of the burn or heck even sustained. An extra mindsunder or cleave would be more damage than the extra 500ish extra base damage from mindsythe over poly assault each weave.
    I'm sure someone fancy with math and has the time could show the work.
  17. Jordis Augur

    I wasn't aware that Gift of Hazy Thought didn't stack with anything. Which spells, auras or other effects did it not stack with?

    Regardless, the change was a Nerf of astounding proportions, even for the enchanter class. The difference on this one was that it impacted the other casters and they're probably more upset about the loss in dps on high end raids that are timed and therefore require every bit of help to meet the high dps requirement.

    From an earlier post by Riou:
    Gift of Hazy Thought.
    Chromatic Haze VI (the Original)
    Enchanter (AA)
    Slot 1: Increase Base Spell Damage by 375% (Chromatic Haze I is 340%)

    Gift of Chromatic Haze
    Enchanter (AA)
    Slot 1: Increase Base Spell Damage by 40%

    The AA: Chromatic Haze (2205)
    When activated, this ability will cloak your group in chromatic magic, allowing their next instant detrimental spell to crit for greater damage. Additional ranks increase the critical damage.

    There's no reasoning other than it was working a bit too well and someone thought that enchanters were getting too powerful, and becoming more useful to groups and raids again.

    The suggestion was uncalled for.

    When there's a need to stun I have the PBAOE stun (Color Concourse) Divination, along with Remote Color Concourse, Divination both timer 3, as well as Dizzying Storm, Alteration, timer 3. So, you can aoe stun with one or the other, but then get to chose one mob to keep stun locked with the overlap. One. I can't think of any raid right off that needs one single mob stunned except for a very short time rather than a group that require an aoe.

    Since I rarely have a nuke up when I'm stunning on raids, I tried out the spells on the Combat Dummies. Color Concourse, cast time 2 secs (12 sec refresh). Dizzying Storm, cast time 2.5 seconds (6 sec refresh). Yes, I can get one nuke in of a cast time of 1.5-2 secs) before the other two refresh at the same time. However, it's not something I'd do on a raid since stun generates enough aggro on its own without adding insult to injury with a nuke or a nuke that may compound with a proc. That was part of the reasoning that dropped that nuke line that also had a stun.

    That wouldn't be the developer that said at the first SoE Fan Faire in response to a concern from an enchanter at an open discussion that enchanters were way over powered and that he knew that because he had "exploited the hell out of one?" Frankly when people asked me about the change I said it didn't actually affect me nearly as much as them as it was their raid dps that was nerfed. I think it's probably fair to say that the mages are more upset about their rain change along with a proc that got flattened with the nerf bat, but I'm hearing from the wizards that are doing parses on raids. I'm just telling them that they had better send some feedback or make their concerns known.

    If I've missed some un-nerf or reduced nerf due to discussion from the class I'd sure like to know what it was.
  18. Random_Enchanter Augur

    MY point here jordis was that before the spell damage stack change other abilitys didn't stack with other abilitys. IE Wolf, spice, IOG, glyph ETC. After it was changed so that they all stacked, we have no data available. As such we can not confirm, or deny that
    because I for one, would 100% support the lowering of a repeatable multiplicative ability that pushes the critical damage % increase over 3000% for the majority of the classes. Simply because it amounts to 5+ nukes rolled in one and will simply result in nerf calls for other classes.

    My suggestion was not uncalled for and you proved it yourself. He simply does not believe in the use of single target stun. There is a use for it, it does get used, and there is good reason to use it. If he doesn't believe this, then he needs to go back to enchanter school. No if-and-or-butts about it. As i said, enchanter spells have conditional use, the good enchanter will consider there entire spell book as a tool. not one spell should be left out of consideration when trying to win an event.


    No idea which developer said that, so i can not confirm nor deny this. I get the impression though that the developer that made these changes is VERY well liked among the populace, especially the enchanter population
  19. Maxxbuff Journeyman

    Here is the point I was attempting to make prior to the personal nonsense.

    The Chromatic Haze change was a change they slipped in and unnecessary.

    The IoG coupled with chromatic haze change was one that they really lowered what the Enchanter brings (Unique and powerful) to the table in a group and redistributed it amongst the casters.

    The deep sleep change was a backdoor nerf.

    What everyone described in their dps setup was a change from baseline of the Enchanter. So, while on raid, you may parse the same, it now requires the support and abilities of several other classes. This was not the case before, because the abilities did not stack. The changes I notice are this, if I go to the combat dummy without the aid of a druid, ranger, bard, etc and use my own abilities, the numbers are considerably lower than they were before the changes.

    This situation is the exact same for our enchanters in raids that do not have the luxury of those other classes in group.

    The overall message is not to be the overpowered class of everquest, but to keep the value we have had over the past couple of years. We all miss the days of being able to mez/stun 50+ mobs, derail trains, and charm one of them to be a vital part of dungeon play.
    Igniz likes this.
  20. Igniz Augur


    Amen!