Cya Everquest

I'm not saying you're wrong or right. Just as was posted yesterday, unless we take every single poster at their word, who knows what is what until more official responses.

I'm not too worried about a "pro-cheat" side or bad actors. It's not my lane. There isn't anything I, or you, can do about it beyond call them out on the forums, and report them in game and on here to the devs.

But on a possibly constructive note, for those who are not looking for cheating methods, but are looking for quality of life, or time-saving, or "modern" improvements to this game that is antiquated due to no fault of it's own, beyond being so awesome that it's still kicking 23 years later....


... what are some ideas or suggestions you have that would help alleviate the people who either are not bad actors, or don't want to harm other's gameplay, but do want some nice conveniences during their game session. Again, with the only reason it being even entertained is because the game is need of an overhaul, and has been discussed to death here a bunch, we aren't getting a proper sequel anytime soon that we are aware of, well, an EQ3 I mean. We aren't getting a mobile client or mobile version or anything, we cannot get a remaster/remake/HD --- but seeing them talk about UI improvements on the roadmap, and the changes with the 64-bit client, seems to offer hope to "modernizing EQ" to the best of their ability with the budget handed to them, and the client as it currently is.


I'm saying, lets help EQ improve. Do you have any suggestions man? It seems that would be much more productive than beating the pro-cheat vs anti-cheat stuff to death, when there doesn't even seem to be a clear definition or agreed upon line. With me starting out this post by saying "it's not our lane anyway".

I haven't been keeping notes, but I think Bardy, and possibly Zik? possibly Killer Queen? I really don't know, I believe these players, or at least Bardy, are saying they got banned at some point in the last 30-90 days, and only thing they did was use ISB?



Personally, I'm really shocked that I have read the forums so much in the last 24 hours. Maybe it's time to scratch that EQ itch on a live server while I wait for the TLP. But who knows. I have so many Steam and Switch games that will get neglected lol.

Bardy admits to using automation software (not ISB). He is an unreliable source.

I don't think Killer Queen said anything about suspensions and supports ISB use.

I'm sure there are "wolves in sheep's clothing." I expect a few people to come out of the woodwork to make "primary source" hearsay claims. He said, she said.

I haven't been banned or suspended in EQ on any of my accounts, ever. I checked and all my account are still fine as of today.

As I said, I'm always at my keyboard and don't do any unattended play or scripts to have characters run off to grab mobs or any of that stuff. I don't "set up camp" and go do something else. I always looked at that type of play as true automation and never agreed with it. In fact, I don't even "set up camp" manually. I find staying in one place incredibly boring. I do my XPing in wide open areas running around. I felt I had nothing to hide, so I wasn't purposefully trying to avoid being seen by anyone.


I'm not on the ISB Discord. Again, I didn't even know there was one for that, either. I'm only on the main EQ Discord, Agnarr Discord (where I exclusively use ISB but don't really play anymore), E-m-u Discord. But honestly I've only ever even popped into any of those once or twice each. I spend my time pretty much on one Discord server and it's not even MMO related.

Server merges to boost active population per server. Improved mercs. Something akin to the gryphons in wow that will let you AFK move from a safe area in one zone to a safe area in another zone that's a decent hike. Change the guild hall portal to being a drop down menu or something more convenient than having to remember what they called the item for it 10 years ago + find it in my bags. Improved autofollow. Dramatically raise the spawn / drop rate of collectibles in old content and normalize their rarity. (specifically the older ones that are required for trophy collector AAs)

It seems there is a group of people in this thread arguing that it is OK to use programs that allow you to cheat as long as you don't use the cheating functions. Just because the program has the ability to automate and let you AFK kill or warp from place to place, as long as you don't implement those functions, you should be permitted to use the program.

Then there seems to be some who think that if you have cheat enabling programs running at all, you should be punished. As in, it doesn't matter if you take advantage of the warping / AFK killing... just the mere fact you have the program running should get you suspended.

DPG then has to somehow make a decision on it's stance. 1) They can just ignore the programs and rely on people reporting the "cheaters" and then investigate every single instance of cheating to catch them (even at 3 AM on Tuesday) before punishing them. Or 2) they can use their own programs to detect the cheat enabling program and then punish people for simply having that program running. Or 3) They could develop and run a program that catches people when they actually cheat and then punish them.

In a perfect world, option 3 would be best - but this would be very difficult to implement or it would probably have already happened. Option 1 seems to have been what was historically done, but considering that it requires so much man power and has been so ineffective, it seems DPG may be going away from this. That leaves option 2, which just assumes that if you are using a cheat enabling program, then you should be labeled as a cheater. I actually don't have a problem with this and think it's the most cost-effective solution.

There is also a very easy solution to for players to protect themselves from this problem... Uninstall the cheat enabling program. That's it. Uninstall and use a program that doesn't have cheat enabling functions... how hard is that? It's not hard. Why is there so much push back? I think Benito knows why

If people are really getting suspended for having ISB without having a cheat enabling program also installed, then that's a problem. However, I don't believe these allegations. I just don't. They might be true and I might be wrong, but as of right now, I think it's hot air designed to distract from the fact that DPG is actually cleaning up the game and doing what the silent majority has been wanting for years.

This is the current modus operandi:

The pro-cheat/pro-automation folks are making a "partial automation" argument:

1. They don't use ISB. They use the other software.

2. They say they control 1 character and automate the 5 others.

3. Then, somehow, they come on the boards and imply that they used ISB.

^^ Replying to it, just so others don't miss it. -- Twice now, I've gone back and realized that people posted in between mine, and I didn't see it update properly in the forums. I'm not very good at forum questing, aside from posting a lot today.

While it's possible that there is this large group of cheaters who are trying to do the things that you and Benito suggest, that's a very pessimistic view, and I hope that's not the case. I'm also someone who tunes out the second someone wants to share the latest conspiracy theory.

These things may be true, but without proof, no reason to assume one way or the other.

Your 3 options are pretty sound, but instead of it only being choice A, B, or C, how about choice D which is taking away the appeal of programs that broadcast, or do any single possible legal or grey area, or whatever thing that would be a "harmless" reason to have ISB installed. -- Then, if they did this, they could easily make it 100% bannable without much pushback except from the people who were clearly doing things unintended, aka "explain to us why you would even have this program installed" type deal.

I'm not sure what the limits are of the client, but somehow magically, the team of coders have continued to make breakthroughs and improve this game. Perhaps they can code in where, you can cantrol group members using keystrokes if approved -- for example, you click on Joebob in your group "take control" and then on joebob screen it says "friz wants to take control of your character while grouped, do you want this?" and once clicked, the person becomes an NPC, like a charmed player, or a merc. --- This could lead to issues of tricks/griefing, but no different than the huge red warning text about auto-following and falling into the lava.

--- while some would be like "hey man, if i log in my account, will you get me some experience?!?!?" and it could be used poorly that way .... they could circumvent that by having an AFK timer like New World recently installed that is very aggressive, that mouse clicks don't even reset it, you absolutely must press w/a/s/d to make the "are you there?" message go away (in New World). --- the idea for this would be, that friz is NOT controlling a friend or guildmate's account, but instead is turning his 2nd or 3rd windows into "bots" the exact same as as a merc, with limited functions like "attack" "stop attack" "cast selected spell" (pre-selected) etc etc.


I don't know. I'm trying to help solve the problem.

If they are at the keyboard actively playing at least one of the toons.... who cares? Again I go back to whats it matter if its six unique people playing or one person playing 6? The outcome is the same. One allows people to play at will and when they have the time. The other requires people to sit LFG in hopes to find a group and then even more hope they want to do the same content.

ISB does not have the capability for automation.

The other software has the capability for full automation.

Daybreak has to treat the software for what it could do and not what the user would do.

This is how I looked at it. Nothing different than a merc, just that it's an extra paid account giving DPG money instead of bayle tokens or whatever it is that funds a merc. I'm at the keyboard running around tanking the mobs. Maybe that's why I never got flagged, because I never even tried to do anything malicious and even if someone watched me, it doesn't look any different than fully manual alt-tab boxing.

Oh and I'm not going to scroll and find who asked, but in all my time playing I've only ever run into two blatant afk players personally. I do know that there was also incredibly rampant abuse in the past in sirens grotto, and I think that classic goblin zone? I forget the name. People used to complain here on the forums a lot about those.

Whats funny to me is that DPG has said there are many things they WANT to fix but simply cannot due to outdated code and other limitations. Funny enough, MQWhatever is open source and anyone can compile it and set limitations. I'm kinda surprised DPG hasnt looked into embracing it, hosting it server side and setting their own limitations which fall within acceptable guidelines. This would allow them to add a ton of features they have wanted to do but couldnt with ease.

so is there anything that ISB can do, that is illegal? (while some, as recent as today have argued that key broadcasting is or should be illegal)

I'm sorting this out in my head, but so ISB is harmless as far as you know? Even though it's not officially announced because of the "it may change in the next update of that 3rd party software" caveat.

Anybody who is cheating, is using or other such "stronger" or illegal programs? is that the basic stance at the moment?

A quick search of history from Benito shows he is consistantly antagonistic. He claims that somone is an unreliable source when he himself has been called the "Alex Jones" of EQ and EQ2 by multiple people. He has no desire to help or discuss about how to make a better game. That being said I actually doubt he even plays and just enjoys doing "ForumQuest" as despite his Ad Hominim attacks, circular arguements, and hasty generalizations (BTW all three are right out of the logical falicy playbook). IMHO Benito really just wants to use this platform to be toxic and sanctimonius. As history shows it is not just this topic but almost any topic really.

That's funny because in the past day this had me thinking "geez, they should just buy out or come to legal agreement with that software team about just using a clean and allowed version of it in the game lol. Or porting those capabilities into the merc system (though I'd much rather have my real toons to work with).

ahh, like Valve taking in the Counterstrike team, etc.

Buy out their software or hire them into the family and utilize their skills. Ya, wouldn't be stupid to consider.

I must have struck a chord. Yet, you can't cite any non-constructive posts or refute arguments on their merits. You really want to start the nuclear war of censorship? Doing so will lead to these threads being locked by Monday.

The forum moderators apply the rules fairly and equally.

I can accuse at least 5 pro-cheat posters with harassment and threats directed against me and others. I have not done so and have not reported their posts.

Here's some examples of perceived harassment and threats against me:

Part of their detection logic is probably "X" number of commands coming from a single IP and having a raid full of toons, even if using ISB, probably hit a threshold that got it flagged. I do know that on Agnarr where I only use ISB, you could get your accounts insta-booted from the game if you had too many commands issued simultaneously. They're probably just using a modified version of that code as part of their detection server-side.

I just showed up recently, so I don't doubt your forum experience, but since it's not obvious to me (having just shown up) why would the moderators lock it? I'm not doubting you, I'm just getting educated.