Cya Everquest

Anyone who knows Curly Bill Brocius knows their shootout at the OK corral.

But wasn't it Johnny Ringo (in the movie you reference?) Checked again, and you're correct. It is Curly Bill in the movie. Nice call.

You are saying you are suppose to alt+tab but I can click the other screen. I can use my Logitech to macro alt+tab, hotkey, then alt+tab. There are lots of ways I can select which client I am sending the data to. Using ISB to send the data to a specific window, in my interpretation, is not cheating. As long as you are sending the data. I would call 1 key = 1 action passthrough, where as 1 key = multiple actions is broadcasting.

Earlier it came up about how ISB could be cheating. Broadcasting to 48 characters is probably a solid answer.

This is why I mentioned the code they have had in place for a long time now that would boot all clients on Truebox that were on the same IP sending the same commands at the same time in a short timeframe.

I'm just saying, their opinion changing on that issue, may account for the announcement and account actions taken as of late.

And I totally agree. There has to be an upper range where it just plain looks like 'cheat-ish' client - server interaction.

Hi, nice to meet you. You sound angry.

I'm glad you counted my posts, I've joked on myself about how much I've posted in the last 24 hours.

You can thank this website link for bringing me here yesterday.

https://massivelyop.com/2022/04/08/...pcoming-progression-servers-and-shard-merges/

I read MassivelyOP every day. Keeping ear open for old games doing new stuff. I just recently went all-in on New World, and while it started out amazing, Amazon messed that up. I played daily from Beta to January. Since January, i've been playing single player pc and switch games, as well as my daily mobile games.

But while I'm halfway through Fire Emblem 3 Houses on Nintendo switch (on one computer screen) since yesterday I've had this forum (when home and in my office) up on my other computer screen. Refreshing to see the discussion on improving everquest. -- If you prefer I make a new thread, I can do that, but generally too many threads about similar topics is frowned upon, and do we really need a new thread every time someone thinks they're important? So I've asked in here. Had the discussion not continued, I would obviously go elsewhere, or if still wanted to focus on EQ or upcoming TLP, I would find a different avenue to explore. (like what class do I want to play, and go to the class forums).

Your post seems accusatory, but perhaps I'm reading it wrong. What behavior is confusing to you? Have you played Dark Age of Camelot? They have a /stick feature that is cool. Have you ever played EQ and multiboxed and been annoyed that one of your windows isn't attacking? I have. Some kind of way to "stay in range for melee attacks" seems like a cool and great quality of life improvement, Someone said that one of these programs does something like that I think? If so, that'd be awesome.


I went back to re-read so that I could properly respond, but honestly the farther the post goes, it almost seems like an attack. What caught me off guard, is how upset you seem to be.

What do you feel my motive is? What are you assuming about me?

I've been very transparent from the beginning. I'm here because I come to read about the TLP server, and Vaniki sounds really interesting. While I was on the forums, I saw the cya everquest thread, where if you look, it was already at like 15 pages or something before I showed up. I was like "why would a cya everquest thread have more than just 1 page of, can I have your stuff" or "don't say bye, just go" .. and when I clicked on it, I saw the current discussion. -- along the way, I asked questions to get educated on why IS Boxer would be, or wouldn't be allowed. You counted my posts, but did you actually read any of them? If not, then it doesn't leave you much room to quote me, beyond personal freedom and free speech of course.


We definitely do agree on one thing, ban cheaters.

Now all this aside, are you and fine here? Can we continue our discussion? We agree ban cheaters, is there even a way to have a discussion about that? Of course not, cheaters suck.

We're talking about ways to improve the game. At least, I am.

Did you not play the game back in 1999 and 2000 where WinEQ was bannable, but very common to play everquest Windowed (so you could alt-tab to your mp3 collection, or load up allakhazam or downloaded jpg of a map or eq atlas?... people didn't alt-tab to other boxes back then... computers weren't strong enough to run 2 instances of EQ).

Do you even realize that's why it was called "2-boxing" for so long, and not even multiboxing, or botting, or multi-client or any of that stuff? Back in the day, you actually had 2 Computer boxes, and this was uncommon, as the majority, (like at least 51%) of the playerbase could not afford to have 2 computers modern enough to run Everquest, then on top of that, share an internet connection (it was dialup for many the first 1-2 years) with 2 keyboards, 2 screens, 2 mice, etc.

Fortunately these days, you can run a boat-load of instances on a single computer. It's technically incorrect to call it "multi-boxing" you're using a single box.

Anyway man, your post seems just really aimed at me, let me know where I upset you, and we can fix that, or you can private message me, or you can email me if you wish. Something made you mad, and it was probably a cheater recently, judging by your reaction.

Anyway, I wrote enough.

oh and on the TL;DR stuff -- you're exactly correct, if it's really important, and I have some specific point or question that I feel absolutely must not be missed, I would be very concise and leave it at 2-3 sentences max. Anybody who reads the TL;DR stuff, had time to, or interest to, in the first place.



Anyway, bottom line? Ban cheaters, and let me know what upset you so much and we'll see if we can correct it. Privately is probably best as to not derail this thread too much.

I agree with what you're saying with it not being cheating, but it creates an environment in which it's so hard to programmatically detect cheating. There's no practical way for EQ to know that a human is pressing a key in ISB versus some random program sending keys. There could even be an automated tools that send mouse and keyboard events to ISB--an ISB automator--which does all kinds of automated actions. Pretty much anyone with a passing ability with Windows could download one of the many key repeater programs and automate whatever they like in ISB. Although ISB may not have macros, scripting, looping, etc., the many Widows key/mouse automation programs do. It would be trivial to automate ISB.

What EQ should have done from the start is prohibit any key/mouse input into a background EQ window. That would mean alt-tab boxing is fine, but background boxing would be prohibited. It's simple to understand and easy to test for. But it's a little late for that now. Background boxing is endemic in the EQ community. Too many people critically depend on tools like ISB to go back to alt-tab boxing or even just a single character.

Yes, on point 2, it seems a no brainer, I'm surprised, but do believe you. a keyboard that does repeating button presses or whatever, seems like black and white defintion of automation. I haven't spoken on whether or not should or should not be acceptable, because it doesn't appeal to me. No desire to have any hardware doing anything for me when I'm not at the computer. Controlling multiple accounts as easily as possible, without breaking the rules, does appeal to me. (obviously).

and ya, on point 1, not everybody seems to be in agreement. I'm not really sure there is a clear way to explain what automation is and is not in regards to point 1. It does seem like something DPG would not allow, which is why I asked in here if it was. -- Benito I think, and another both just recently said that broadcasting is fine. -- while they aren't the authority on this, I'll take their word for it, as they've been reading the forums much longer than me in recent memory.

Wow. Umm. It's clear you don't follow me much, if you wanted to know about me, it's there to be learned.

Yes, totally for banning cheaters, all of them.

I have a pretty broad definition of cheating. I was previously allowed to auto fish with my key repeating mouse. Recent change disallows that.

Not really a big deal. It's been years since I subbed for a month during anniversary. I'm not upset.

I completely celebrate your ability to state your opinion as well.

Good post.

I really wanted to hear how Killer Queen was controlling the 48 accounts at once. I was hoping that they didn't mean all at once, but instead they have 48 active accounts, even if some are free/silver, and they picked from them to form their squad of 6 or 12.

by that token, looking at my mmo excel sheet, I think I have like 15 characters over 8 accounts.... but if I ever play more than 3, the others are parked at guild hall or at zone line used as buff-refresh-bots. Usually they're more hassle than their worth, so a perfect world to me, is 3 accounts with 3 mercs.

I'm confused, are you also eq Math? I wrote to him.

With you, I agree on your points.

Key Repeating can easily be completely undetectable keep that in mind.

The old example we use is the Simpsons episode with the Water Bird. You don't need a water bird, you can rubber band down a key.

You can set up a completely mechanical Key Repeat without detectable software or hardware.

They will never be able to detect and stop all key repeating. It is the nature of what you do that makes it cheating or not.

IMO, what EQ should (have) done is implement a boxer tool set so people didn't feel like they needed to use a 3rd party to make boxing less clunky. They could easily add a client command something like /box name action. Then it can't really be abused because they would throttle it and you could only hit one at a time, unlike ISB which would let you send the command to 48 characters at once.

I've never been on any forum account but this ever.

I'm the MasterMagnus with robes in the Player Studio Marketplace section.

I usually advocate for things unpopular, because I'm an odd bird. Glad to meet you!

It's very easily detectable no matter what software or hardware you use on the client side. Truebox servers already can and do detect and action on it. You can have 2 physical keyboards on 2 physical boxes and if you hit the keys on the 2 keyboards at the exact same time to do the exact same action enough times in a row, the server boots every single client connected from that IP address, even if it wasn't one of those 2 computers.

Source: It happened to me personally a number of times 6 boxing with no tools before I started using I S Boxer.

Ok. I just didn't understand what you meant, clear I don't follow you, or if wanted to know about you. I didn't write to you about anything like that I don't think.

Or about freedom of speech or any of that stuff.

I'm out of the EQ loop, so if you're sorta well known or a big deal around these parts, then my bad. No sarcasm either. There are a few names who have been around forever that I recognize, but most I do not, I hadn't logged in to the forums since may 2020, until yesterday.

Just remember Magnus did everything wrong! (had to throw the 40k quip in somewhere!)

Both examples I gave are completely undetectable, when you set it up correctly.

Easiest is the Rubber Band holding down a key, key is set to only send one message per minute to one window.

Your example makes all sorts of assumptions that don't have to occur. If they did occur that is a pretty good indication of cheating I'll stipulate.

But in my example of rubber band holding down key to send message once per minute, is that possible to detect, beyond an exact timing with no random pauses in between?

I didn't say there weren't ways around it via throttling etc. on the client. I'm just saying the code is there for situations where there is no throttling or intelligence around what is sent when. But we're getting off topic so I'll leave it at I agree with you that malicious actors could try to circumvent it.

I went back and double checked, I think you read my response to EQ-Math as if I quoted or replied to you.

and yes, nice to meet you.

Totally agree with this. There is so many QoL improvements that have been requested continuously over time with no changes in game. Not sure if this is a resource issue, a management issue, or what but the weak autofollow that is seemingly unchanged from inception is a good example.

If you look at how tradeskills have evolved over time right now you can automate your TS 1-300 if you have enough materials/money compared to the carpet tunnel inducing ways of old. I am sure some of the people who completed their TS the old fashioned way would consider the current methods cheating.

Much of this game is still in the tedium for the sake of it stage taking 0 skill but requiring time to complete. (Fishing, foraging, plat farming).

Understanding that this is a role playing game and things shouldn't be handed out, but that's why we have type 5s that take 12? missions each to purchase, evolving items that take thousands of kills, AAs etc.

I have always loved this game, and I would like it to stick around as long as possible. I just think what is happening now is going to accelerate the decline unless there is some compromises made.