Cya Everquest

My ask is for transparency and consistency.
For the same offense some accounts are getting multiple suspensions while some get banned (account terminated).
Some accounts are getting additional suspensions AFTER people removed the 3rd party software after their previous suspension. This means they are being punished for offenses PREVIOUS to the last suspension. Some people are saying they received suspension emails for accounts that have been dormant for long periods.
This removes any motivation to LEARN from a mistake and go clean going forward if they will still suspend anyway. No rehabilitation incentive at all. All this tells players is that once you are on the cheat list they should expect to get a suspension in the future whether you cheat or not so might as well cheat.

I thought it was March 22nd he had posted that. My mistake.

I can't speak to exactly when the TOS changed, then, but prior instances of it had only mentioned unattended gameplay as unallowed. "Bots" also falls under what I called the "gray area" because for so, so long DPG would only say that they could not confirm nor deny that any given software was allowed and that as long as you were at the keyboard while playing that it was ok. Specific things were obviously called out as against the rules, such as warping and speed hacks.

But "botting" even in itself can be taken multiple ways. Do they mean automation to the point of turning it on and walking away from the keyboard? Or do they mean any form of automation at all? I don't consider automation and botting to be the same thing in all regards. DPG put themselves in this situation since they didn't ban or suspend anyone as long as they responded to a GM tell, even going so far as on Rizlona when they accidentally blocked the software to say "oops" and unblock it.

This has been ongoing for 20+ years now so there was the reasonable expectation that the situation had not changed. In fact, I'm sure I'm far from the only one that only just now found out that the TOS wording had silently been changed. And unless someone is a frequent forum viewer or got their account suddenly banned or suspended, I suspect there are players that even now may still not know.

Anyway, that was more winded than I wanted this response to be. Thanks for checking it out but if it comes down to it I'll still dispute with my credit card company explaining all of this. I still haven't decided how I want to proceed, but knowing boxing how I used to is probably a thing of the past, my days of EQ Live are done since playing 1 character does not interest me at all and I'll never go back to alt-tabbing.

El. Oh. El.

You can still use their services. You can still play the game. You still have access to all of the extra stuff you got.

Just because you can't use your third party software is irrelevant. But again, I really wish you do ask your bank to charge back the expansion purchase. I just wish I was a fly on the wall when that happens.

I don't understand how some of you think charge backs are so hard to do or something. I've done it half a dozen times before and never had issues. In fact, they barely asked any questions. But whatever, like I said I'm not continuing to muddy the conversation with that. Moving on (again).

Hasn't changed in the last year at least.

Unattended playing is only one factor of cheating. You don't have to tick all the boxes to be cheating, any one of them can be cause for suspension.

Both. The ToS didn't actually say unattended play.

I believe you are talking about when they unblocked I S Boxer, which isn't automation.
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq...r-code-for-rizlona.266957/page-6#post-3924380

Still have yet to provide evidence. I checked back to 2015 on wayback machine and it still reads the same.

Because they believe other players who misled them with lies.

I S Boxer is still ok to use to box.

Well it still stands that if they are suddenly enforcing it now then I no longer have any interest in the game. It is what it is. There are other ways to play and I will go back to them and DPG won't see another penny from me going forward.

And yes I know what I S Boxer is. I use it.

apparently it isn't because people have been suspeneded and that all they use.

Will Daybreak send a FedEx box to pickup a customer's PC to verify that only ISB and no other software has been loaded? Maybe they can make a deal with Best Buy and have Best Buy run detection software.

I'm genuinely curious about your proof of that.

Im sure if you offer to foot the bill to DPG they may take ya up on it!

Just as much proof as yall lot saying the only people getting suspended or banned were cheating. At the end of the day DPG could honestly or should I dishonestly suspend any account in the game and send them the vague email that states "Cheating" because no actual reason or time or any verifiable information is given at all we only have DPG's "Word" that something was done inappropreatly. We already have past incidents involving DPG/DBG of false suspensions and colateral damage so it isn't far fetched to beleive it can happen again.

All those New Members are gonna be Journeymen by the time this thread ends.

Your initial post quite matter-of-factly stated that people were being suspended for it.
Your follow-up post lacked any kind of support for that, at all. It was just hand-waving, supposition, and conjecture.
So you admit you have no evidence to back your claim, right?

I was looking a bit on the everquest I S Boxer forum, and it is NOT filled with posts about suspensions. It doesn't seem to be something they worry about over there...Coincidently, none of I S Boxers features seems to be mentioned in that "what constitutes as cheating"-post.
I don't think the I S Boxers have to worry about suspensions.

The cheaters might be shocked to find out, that they are not the majority at all...and I think DBG knows this as well...

I'm still trying to figure out what are the legal (and illegal?) things that IS Boxer can do.

Someone is going to be overly kind and post/link me to some super awesome wiki or bullet-point brochure right? haha. Even if can't use on Vaniki, it is a bit of a downer to get yourself excited about playing EQ again, but then think of all the multi-tasking/clicking/alt-tabbing/can't-forget-anything etc that goes with manually 2-3 boxing. --- It would be nice if there is some awesome QoL features that would help. It's right up there with mixing up the experience just enough to make it fresh/new/different-this-time just like this awesome ruleset-experiment that the dev team has come up with for Vaniki.


Anyways. just an overly rambling blanket reply that got attached to you since you hinted at people not really being aware of what the program even does (like me). Everything I know about the program comes from these forums, and I thought any type of "press this key, to make 3 characters all do a particular action without switching and manually doing it" was something that you could (as in likely would) get banned for as soon as someone saw your people all stand up and cast in unison etc.

Mercs really brought a whole nother level to this game for me back in the days.I don't know if "having 2 mercs" is the answer or trying to convince the dev team to implement a lot of QoL improvements so people don't want to use add-ons/mods, or what. But I'm happy for change, it is 2022, and all.


(Just don't ever try to change Freeport again)

As Curly Bill once said "Well....... BYE"

I S Boxer is just window management and the ability to map certain keys to certain windows. You can also overlay virtual buttons if you want to do it with a mouse.

This is off topic and there is plenty of info out there if you google it.

https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230629007-What-are-the-EverQuest-Rules-of-Conduct-
I was curious about the unattended play since I didn't see it in the TOS. Found it under Rules of Conduct.

The only official response you will get from DBG is https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/what-constitutes-as-cheating.281242/ and https://help.daybreakgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/230629007-What-are-the-EverQuest-Rules-of-Conduct-

If you are worried about a particular third-party program is breaking the rules stated in those 2 links. Then you should read carefully what the programs can do, before running them.
Even if you are not using a specific rule-breaking feature, then the existence of that feature might be enough to flag you for a future suspension.
Im no expert on third-party programs(I never tried them), so I can't give any specific advice or info.

The programs themselves have their own communities, where they are much better suited to give answers. Furthermore, the DBG forums are censoring topics regarding the programs, so it is probably better if you ask for specifics elsewhere.

My advice is, that you shouldn't be looking for grey areas, people who are "skirting" the lines, tends to cross them by accident. Just because a rule has not been enforced for years does not mean it shouldn't be followed. DBG can suddenly and without warning begin to enforce the rules again.
Oh, and remember to have fun!

Well grey area is just a civil way to deal with Benito and anybody who can't decide what is and isn't cheating.

Anybody using common sense, like alluded to in the discussion knows what cheating is.

You won't ever see me cheating in EQ. I'm too paranoid about getting caught, and my name, reputation, accounts, etc are all way too important to me. Even if I created some new account to be "evil" i still would be worried that somehow, someway, I'd mess up and post from a wrong forum acount, or ip/pc mac address or something would get a regular account banned. I am one of those that believes in karma, and that even if you think you got away with something, that eventually you don't. Karma and all, you reap what you sow, both good and bad.


I'm more looking at ISB as a QoL "add-on". I don't know what all WoW and ESO have these days for add-ons, but some of them were wonderful. I remember years ago WoW had a map/quest add-on, it didn't show you where mobs were, like a cheat, it just made a game that already spoon-fed you, do it even faster. I think I first heard of it around 2007/2008. It wasn't illegal, just QoL type stuff.

Same with ESO, I played that for only a month last year, and there was this add-on that's really popular for improved sales/trading, but it doesn't show you any secret value or whatever, just more UI options.


Those kinds of things, would be awesome in EQ because the game is so old, that anything that helps with the interaction, menu'ing, and UI would be heavily welcomed. -- My eyes and ears perked up when I saw on JChan's Roadmap that UI is sometime next year (they hope). Really excited for that.


Let me google real quick, the ESO thing...

https://www.esoui.com/downloads/fileinfo.php?s=63a78ef16fa3cea292f771368016a6de&id=2753

^^ something like that... or in World of Warcraft, I haven't played that game in 15 years, but let me see what google says...ya no telling on WoW, but stuff like you see here: https://slothytech.com/10-best-wow-and-wow-classic-leveling-questing-addons/


Now, I imagine ISB can't do that kind of stuff, but that's why I go around asking. I'm not looking for anything to help me "cheat" if i was, you wouldn't see me even dropping names of programs or asking questions. --- again, I'm just happy we can have the discussion (until told we can't) because there obviously is a "grey area" going on here as the game has evolved.

I know the response is long, but just up early this Sunday morning, and have Everquest on the brain from the discussion yesterday. --- Everytime I come back to EQ, whether for a month or 6 months, I always ask myself "ok, what's going to be different this time?!?!" and then I think i'll play a different class, but then I remember for various reasons why I don't play this or play that, or why I always do this or do that. ---- that's why I'm super pumped for Vaniki.


I hope all this makes sense, I don't really want to get in on the already-overcooked argument about cheaters. But I won't keep bringing it up if nobody else talks about it, I just jumped in on the already going conversation yesterday. If I -really- get the bug and absolutely -must know-, then I'll install EQ, play on a live server that isn't a TLP, install ISB, and see for myself. Things like warping or other illegal (whatever it is) stuff out there doesn't appeal to me. Things that make it easier to 2 and 3 box, do.


1 small example, somewhere in one of these threads, it said the program (or some program, I don't know actually) can help you stay in range of mobs, like it's autofollowed or something. --- DAoC had that feature, which was amazing for boxing. You could type /stick and your melee (or any toon) would stay in range for attacking. --- imagine something like that on EQ, you're not doing anything that you couldn't do manually (move characters around and toggle windows) but it would sure make playing more than 1 melee in a 3 box fun, because not worried about mob placement, or a melee character just standing there not doing anything because you pushed the mob with other toon and now it "can't reach"



oh man, what a long winded ramble. If you read it, God bless you.

Before mapquest and ....those other Addons to help in WoW, they had some player made addons that were helpful and they were NOT cheating at all. Blizz got smart and did an in house version themselves because they listen to their player base and decide what's good and what isn't. There was NOTHING wrong with a lot of player base addons, but yes, some were cheating or circumventing how the game is 'supposed' to be played. First I can think of that broke rules and wasn't allowed anymore was "Decursive". Or the one that in classic WoW you just needed to click the name and it would decurse the person in the beginning fight of the plague wing (I think it was plauge) with that one dude that would curse your whole raid and if you missed one decurse on any 1 player it pretty much blew up your raid.