So once again, 5 or so years after the Dev's had already found a fix for something and purposefully chose NOT to implement the change because it would only negatively impact the game and require the complete rebalancing of all expansions between its introduction (PoR with the Monk auras, Disciple's Aura and Master's Aura) and the discovery of a fix (the first time I want to say it was around SoD or UF). But now you are going to unbalance every expansion between PoR and today, and make a ridiculous claim that reducing the riposte damage by a piddly 25-40% compared to the 100% it previously was is going to in anyway going to be balanced? You need to just leave Riposte's alone. If you want to reintroduce this defensive ability to Mobs, then give them a new ability; you could just call it a Counter. Mob731489702 counters for 25324 damage; and make that be 25-40% less damage than what a riposte would have been. This way it doesn't screw up every expansion since the bug was introduced, and it does not remove an eventually INTENDED benefit of specific AA lines. As it stands this change will most likely further close a ever shrinking gap between these 3 classes and the other melee classes. Monks even will likely end up below other melee classes of which they are intended to be either the same or better than in DPS. Also, of course these changes won't affect the current functionality of the focused counterparts, because the focused counter parts do not perform the extra combat round. Kind of hard to reduce 0, without it being obvious how crazy a change is. I sure hope that this time when you all try to do this you have changed the reuse time of Dragon Force from being 10 minutes to matching the reuse time of Dragon Punch. Otherwise you will just end up having to once again reverse the change. This exact thing was tried previously during DoDh, and they refused to make the AA have a matching reuse time. They Tried doing it again a few years ago, same issues. All you have to do is make the Dragon Force AA have the same reuse time as Dragon Punch, but make its landing contingent upon a physical resist or just work as a hit/miss based of the Dragon Punch skill. Regardless of how you go about making it so that it lands at the same frequency, it needs to be useable at the same rate that it currently is.
Destructive Force- This change is crap and they know it. For like 8-10 years or something we had to deal with a very broken AE. Then finally you guys fix it only to nerf the hell out of it just a little bit later? Now it's basically going right back to it's broken state again. This is stupid. Seems to me that they are punishing monks and rouges all because Zerkers AE is to powerful now. Monks and rouges are not the ones doing 800k to 1 Million damage per second on some events. Not even close. Their are many ways this could be dealt with, like just nerfing the Zerker version or adjusting the adds HP but just blanket nerfing all 3 classes is crap. If this goes threw then monks and rogues will be far behind where we should be. If your going to do this, then monks / rogues need to have our passive damage AA's raised to keep up with the other DPS classes. Or you need to Un-Nerf Monks Thunderfoot which you totally stole from us. If your going to kill our AE DPS, then we need some more single target DPS to make up for it. Things are quite balanced atm (except for Zerkers), this change will completely screw the balance up. Don't punish all 3 classes because 1 of the 3 is doing way more damage than they should. It's wrong and you know it Devs. Their is about 10 ways they could "fix" the problem off making adds to easy on raids, this is not the answer.. Ripostes- This change I don't care much about as long as it doesn't mess up Whirlwind / counterattack type discs and doesn't mean lots more damage for melee DPS. I don't see the need to change this now after so long but it does have me a little worried. If I'm understanding this right, it sounds like melee are going to be getting hit with Ripo damage now that we weren't before? Melee DPS already have to deal with taking a LOT more damage than casters. Short range AE's, Wild Rampage, and just being up in thick of things in general is already often deadly to melee dps. Adding Ripo damage on top of all that is not alright. Their is already enough crap melee dps have to deal with just to try and compete with casters. Adding Ripo damage from raid mobs is a step in the wrong direction. So if this is right, then you need to give melee dps a big bad rune like all the casters have now to help deal with the absurd amount of damage that melee have to deal with already. Again, this just adds to more imbalance between melee DPS and Casters. What, melee dps weren't taking enough damage already? Does this effect the monk aura in any way? What does this mean exactly for Ripo immunity? Dragon Punch- This is a great change! I think you misunderstood the change Xianzu. They are changing it so it will be just a straight push ability now, just like the SK / Pally push it sounds like. It will no longer be tied to Dragon punch attack at all. This is how it should have always been. A completely separate ability that's not tied to any of our basic attacks. It sounds like your saying it has a 10 min reuse timer though? Hopefully that's not the case. It should be like 5-15 sec reuse if anything. But + points to the devs for finally making it a separate ability at least.
Don't blame your brother because your parents dont know what they are doing! Zerkers are built around this now. We already took a hit when they shortened our ability to match monks (rouges did too). Without that crazy burst, our sustained goes to crap really really fast. Zerkers have the longest refresh timers.
I'm all for better sustained, for all 3 classes. That's why I mentioned our passive AA melee boost. But let's be real, the only reason this issue came about is because how nuts Zerkers AE is now, Not b/c of monks of rogues. Yet were being lumped into this and it's not fair. It's not fair for zerker either, being that AE damage seemed to be the Devs answer for helping their DPS and are now going to just taking it away. Point is, this change is not the answer and it's a HUGE hit to all these classes. I want to know how they plan to give this DPS back to us. Boosting that passive melee damage AA is a good answer I think, that would give us back some of the burst at least and some more sustained.
Going to miss all those charmed people getting killed by zerker AEs. Hah! Now they just have to bring back mob enrage to put the icing on the top.
Berserker sustained is one of the strongest in game, it does not go to crap... it is also higher then the other melee
Guess that depends on many variables. Yes dicho has changed it quite a bit, if you can sustain the endo cost, not every raid/group is optimized to support that, and no fade hurts it as well, where the other 2 have the ability to fade still. Also that burst is a large part of the sustained if done to the level that the devs want to nerf.
Thus is just the start for melee. Look at what they did with Wizards. You guys are next. There's more coming your way.
all I have to say is kudos to DBG for crippling/nerfing 3 classes and hiding behind the combat balance theory. YOU balanced nothing, you nerfed 2 classes for no reason and stymied another. just my long and short of it. not gonna go on much about it cuz in the end its not gonna matter, ya ll are gonna swing the nerf bat hard and heavy, feeling that you are "balancing" things when in essence you know well nuff you are not.
There really is no reason to fade unless your Tanks are awful. I've seen it first hand from a guild that clears the content, yet has their Berserkers get slaughtered from aggro all the time to a top guild that never has their Berserkers die at all. If people play well, then Berserkers rule everything. At the moment, Rogues, Monks, Rangers and Beastlords are fairly balanced between each other and Rampage has an enormous part in that. Something is going to have to be done to make up for the loss of this ability to bridge the gap.
Yes the tanks are terribad on the raid force that I raid the zerker with! There is a running joke when I'm told to ae dps how long I will last. I even pulled agro on a strait up non ae burn this weekend, to give you an idea. In the group game I play a lot with a bard that brings tons into camps and then we burn them down one at a time because we have no tank that can ae agro and healer merc so while they are mezzed i am usually locked into combat and he keeps a never ending stream so I don't leave combat much if ever. With a real tank and being able to do my ae, that would be completely different. As I was saying many variables. I will agree that rampage is huge for monk/rouge/zerker dps and without being able to use them, bst and ranger "generally" will out dps them. the zerker part is due to many variables, and all things being equal with dicho and limitless endo yes zerker will be on top, most the time.
Except Zerker sustained isnt anywhere close to strongest in the game, let alone strongest melee. And it absolutely does go to "crap". Here's a combined of Anashti Sul Enslaver of Souls /g Combined: A guardian of Sul in 468s, 106876k @228368sdps - Behelit + pets 106876k@(228368dps in 468s) Here's the AE burn /g Combined: A guardian of Sul in 56s, 59854k @1068828sdps - Behelit + pets 59854k@(1068828dps in 56s) Here's the remainder (including 2ndary discs) /g Combined: Anashti Sul, Damsel of Decay in 412s, 47022k @114131sdps - Behelit + pets 47022k@(114131dps in 412s) 56% of total damage done in the first 56s of a 7min48sec fight, but its our sustained dps thats strong? I'm pretty sure most classes can hold above 114k for 6min without using their main burn. Most other classes can't burn as high tho so Zerkers will beat them on the combined yes, but thats not due to strong sustained dps.
I understand what you're implying with having a steady flat-lined DPS performance, but really that will never be accomplished by anyone. The burst DPS and the non-disc DPS all should be combined to get your average, which is your sustained. It doesn't matter when you do your DPS, it's how much damage you get in over the course of any event. And beserkers currently obliterate everyone over the course of a night, which to me makes them the highest sustained as well.
and zerker pay a very high price for that as well. blind, root, very weak defensively, no fade. we all make trade offs, ours was for that really high dps, taking our ae away from us makes our trade offs not worth it as we will be below most others (depending on the nerf to that ae).
So if Zerkers had the exact same burst we currently have.. but after our 60sec of burn we literally were unable to do any more damage after that. Using my above numbers that would be ~59mil dmg over 468sec @ ~127k dps. By your definition you would then say that Zerkers can "sustain" 127k dps? I would say, Zerkers burst for 800k-1mil and then can't sustain anything, so the longer the fight the worse they get. Personally I think of sustained as the opposite of burst so given your example I'd reword to "The burst DPS and sustained DPS all should be combined to get your average". Non-disc dps is sustained dps because it doesnt rely on any short duration/long recast abilities (aka discs). All I'm saying is call it what it is, Zerkers have a higher burst than others which allows for them to come out on top for combineds. It's not something that's sustained, as the longer a fight is the lower and lower we go. Take that same Anashti Sul Enslaver of Souls event, one time after going for Strong to the Core on High Bokon we didnt have burns up at the start Anashti, the result was a much longer fight than we've ever had. /g Combined: A cherished guardian of Sul in 1025s, 165056k @161030dps - Behelit + pets 165056k @161030dps How can you say that my last 220k was my "sustained" when its not actually sustainable for anything much longer than the original parse duration on that event?
I would gladly trade some of the ADPS requirements and burst dps for higher sustained. What other class requires so much ADPS and for it to be all timed perfectly to pull off ?
I bet that a few hours after this patch goes live we are back down to revert the changes to at least half of what they put in.
I do not doubt that at all. I just don't understand anything really that has happened the last few years. I guess the devs are trying to tell the guilds who wouldn't be considered top tier to get good or be a filthy casual.
