Our Monks are doing just fine. Yes the numbers aren't where they were before the patch but I get the feeling our Rogues are WAY more frustrated at the moment. We've been saying it for over a year now (since the patch that made changes to bonus damage summer 2015) that fixing Thunder Kick would cure all ails Monks may still have.
Tho i think it would be nice at this point if they did fix thunderfoot procs other classes would complain monks are too op then by this point... doesnt mean i dont want it fixed they need to stop breaking trying tho
While I don't at all disagree with you I'm not going to pretend it's a secret a certain woodsy DPS class might be doing more consistent dps than pure melee classes and that isn't right either.
I don't understand why monks suck. What makes them suck so bad at DPs? Are we all sure it's the class and not the person behind the screen? Maybe the guilds I've been in and the other monks I've talked too are all flukes and surrounded by bad DPs in the top 5 guilds in the game. It's just strange that when monks are making parse there's a large outcry of people saying they can't make parse or are in a very bad spot. What's putting us in a bad spot? Do you want event specific help? Do you want to know how to rotate burns? We aren't rogurs or zerkers, our burn styles are completely different. We don't have massive burn damage to adjust for sustain or constantly burn because our auto attack damage is crap. If you need pointers just ask. If you're going to continue to lie about monks being in a bad spot you're going to ruin it for the current good monks because we'll be the ones to set forth a future nerf bat again. Right now I can be top 3 on damsel of decay, top 5 on grummus, and spread throughout various other fights amongst the top 10 if not better. Name an event. I'll give you my burn rotation and not hold back. Sure what I do "isn't proper" but when the ability to constantly make parse is evident, proper goes out the window.
IMO the biggest reason for what you're describing is that Monk burns are more complex than most other classes. In my experience, players who go to a lot of effort optimizing their rotations/burns are less common than the ones who will dump all their abilities into a few spam buttons and mash them a lot. That button mashing thing is FAR easier to get away with on other classes. My ranger was 99% optimal with 3 different "burn" socials, and a single spam button. I'd just hit the first social when the burn is called, second social when an audio trigger goes off, same for 3rd. Monk doesn't feel that easy at all.
All this talk and no post df nerf parses , anyways you're in roi which is one of the handful of guilds that run event to event stupid fast and doesn't allow for some classes full potential abilities to be up for the parses you're top 5 on. Or it could be you guys are in farm mode and kinda slacking, but to assume everyone can't touch your dps is stupid. Every guild is different and well played hybrids with on point adps can destroy monks with ease if everything is up.
and now you're talking out your rear. during progression i was still in top 10/top 5. so fact check yourself first. this goes the same as the monks in triton, rote, machin shin, and crimson tempest. i've seen their parses and monks made those. so understand who you're talking to. just because you suck, doesn't mean we suck.
I'll vouch : Sarco slummed it with my guild for a year before moving to RoI. We , ah , allow plenty of time between events for discs to refresh. He was top5 most events, top 5 nightly combines for approximately his entire tenure. We have a couple hotshit berserkers & wizards now that might bump him a couple spots should he try us again... but I wouldn't bet real money.
Something else to keep in mind is that monks aren't as often put in optimal melee DPS groups because putting them into the group makes it non-optimal compared to a Rogue, Zerk, Ranger, Bst, Sham, Bard setup. You're not going to make it too high up the parse if they stick you in a group without the ADPS toys.
Nerf totally was brutal, but idk...our monk holding our own still...again, im a firm believer in the person behind the keys. Just my 2cp.
All those who say monks suck either don't know how to play one very well or have never played one at all. It IS all about the person behind the toon period. My guess is that is probably true for most classes anyway. Sure monks may require some work to get the discs and burns down and timing down but people like Sarc and those who have been doing it for a long time have put that work in. That's why they can do good regardless of what guild they are in or what group. Everyone gets augmented by good ADPS -- that is the entire point. But monks hold their own just fine in most circumstances. I don't know that many group geared toons outside of the classic solo classes that can solo nameds in upper tier TDS or TBM. Heck even a lot of the TBM missions for that matter. Monks can. Well Sarc and I know one who can anyway but I bet there are many others. We cant be that broken if we are able to do that. We are awesome pullers in most situations regardless of what other idiots say or think and we can hold up pretty decent tank wise in groups and be high up in raid parses whether in top 10 or not who cares. If you are doing your job and consistently putting out high dps and you are 15th on the parse that still means you're worth having. I'd rather be with any person playing any class that has a clue than someone who can get lucky on any given parse. We all have our good points and weaknesses because that is how it was designed to be. I'm the first to say sometimes they screw things up balance wise prolly cause its a never ending challenge to keep it somewhat where they think it should be. No matter what they do if you know your crap as a monk you can login and hit play and kick . Sarc I bet Splos has told you something along that before. Something like hey I just play. He doesn't much care what changes they make or nerfs they put in he just finds a way to get it done. I want thunderfoot fixed too and I don't like the DF nerf either but that's life and I just take the advice of someone who has been doing it since day one. I just log on and hit play and feel great about what monks can do.
I do agree with most all of what you said Picard. However, they have gone a bit to far with the nerfs in the past year or 2. It's one thing to tone things back, it's a hole different thing to nerf them into the ground to where it makes things totally useless. They nerfed FD, which is probably the most defining monk ability. Not only that but they even gave SK's and Necro's one more rank of hastened perfect FD so Sk / necro could do perfect FD more often than we can. That's just not right, at all.. Then they nerf Moving Mountains. Their was no good reason for this. Some might say that being able to pull a mob single out of a pack was overpowered, but IMO it was not. Monks are suppose to be the primer pulling class. Also, the Moving Mountain / Perfect FD trick only worked in wide open zones AND only once every 2 mins. It did not work in any zone with a low Ceiling. Nerfing it back to say even con mobs, would have been reasonable. But light blue? That's a joke. It's completely useless now. If the mob is light blue, then I don't need to single pull it anyway! This is stupid. Then they nerf Thunderfoot. Now, thunderfoot was out of control and did need to be nerfed, some. But yet again, they took it way to far. Not only did they make it so it can't be Twin-proced, but they also changed it so only like 2-3 flying kick abilities can trigger it instead of all flying kicks like it was. When all was said and done, thunderfoot was only procing about 10% of what it was before...That's INSANE. Nerfing it back to say like 40% of what it was would have been reasonable. Taking it back to 10% of what it was is a joke. They might as well just have taken it out the game. It's this mentality that's pissing me off. The Devs just go from one extreme to another. It's stupid and unnecessary. Did you know rouges got the ability to Twin-proc their thunderfoot like ability back but we didn't? When I heard that I got really pissed off. I don't know if zerkers did as well but I'm guessing they did. All 3 classes with this type of ability should have got an AA to let it be twincast again. I'm fine with rouges and zerkers having a higher % for twinproc than we do, but not giving monks this ability back at all is not ok. I'm not going to draw this out any more pointing out every single nerf and how the Devs took it to far, but I think you get the point. The point is simple, I'm fine with nerfs in general as they do need to keep some balance, but they go WAY TO FAR with the nerfs to the point it's makes things completely useless. It's crap and I'm getting really sick of it. If they want to nerf something, so be it but don't nerf it so bad that it makes it useless. Class defining abilities are being lost and this just makes people want to quit. Believe it or not, they can just slightly nerf things back until it's just right instead of this nerf it INTO THE GROUND crap that they are doing now with everything. Balance grasshopper....balance.../nod
I agree with you drop. There are some things I look at and go, huh if they didn't nerf that I could do 900k burns. Now, hows that fair on a single target burn? I agree with nerfs to an extent. If you then render it useless, why even give it to us. Moving mountains isn't even on my ii anymore. It's point less. I know we'd all like more DPs, but there comes a point you do have to look at the balance. Maybe of moving mountains worked I wouldn't be so keen as to finding the little things that are missing to supplement my lack of burn dps in comparison to other classes. That doesn't mean monks can't burn, there are just work around because on anything longer than 60s we run into trouble blowing our entire load like a zerker does
Yeah I pretty much can't argue with a single thing you said Drop. Believe me I have been just as pissed off about a lot of what you mentioned as you and lotsa others. I guess I was addressing a different issue, because the issues you posted about are ones having to do with the devs and nerfs themselves and why they do or don't happen. On those I am with you. What pisses me off even more though is dimwits who say monks suck and they cant do squat and yada yada. My point would be that even despite all the crap that has happened that you quite frankly spelled out pretty darn well we still have the ability to kick . I would argue that it proves even more that the person playing the avatar matters more than anything else. Have the nerfs sucked and affected the monk class in stupid ways? Yep. Have the nerfs that have happened been too severe in many cases? Yep. And yet I bet you still kick cause you know what the heck youre doing. I bet you still find ways to work around them and still represent. It doesn't mean they were right or that we shouldn't be peeved about them. Youre probably also right that a lot of monks have quit just like other classes have when they felt they got the shaft. Its probably me being a tool for getting pissed over someone who is obviously a troll posting nonsense. I'll admit to that. I guess I was trying to say monks can still be awesome in spite of everything (while acknowledging that it can be pretty darn infuriating sometimes) and anyone who says we suck is the one who sucks. My fault for getting caught up in something not worth responding to I guess. Whatever they do I'm still going to hit play and do the best I can when I have the time to play anyway. And someone who says I suck because I play a monk will probably piss me off just as much as whatever nerf we've been hit with. Maybe I should do a better job of not caring about stupid trolls spewing crap.
Yea that's exactly my point, all the Devs are doing by nerfing stuff into the ground is making all the hard work they did making these abilities now useless. I just don't get that mentality what so ever. How many years did monks deal with a super broken AE ability? Then they FINALLY fix it, just to nerf it back to it's broken state again basically. /boggle While I agree that monks are in a good place overall, I do not agree that we don't need some good tweaking. It's been to many years now that the Devs have tried to give us new stuff that just turns out to be 100% worthless. They desperately need a class lesion for each class to talk with BEFORE beta starts. I think what we really need now is a new class roundtable that's able to tell the Devs what each class really does or doesn't need. To many years have gone by now where the Devs try to make some cool new ability for each class that turns out to be useless. Either because A. said class really didn't need such an ability at all, B. said class did need such an ability but it was implemented wrong. Or C. said class did need such an ability and it was implemented correctly but then was later nerfed to the point on uselessness. Between the 3, I'd say that about 75% of the Devs work now a days is pointless. It's disheartening seeing this happen to the game. Most all of this could be solved with a REAL roundtable that has very knowledgeable people of each class in it. Or at the very least, an actual productive IRC chat. Which leads me to the IRC chats. Has their been any talk of when or if these will even happen this year? It would be great if we could actually have productive ones this year where the Dev in charge doesn't automatically dismiss every good idea thrown at them and have them tell us what we do or do not need even though they don't even play the class at all... The past IRC chats have been pointless. Don't get me wrong Devs! I love you guys! If it wasn't for the Devs we wouldn't have this awesome game to play. But let's be real for a min, people who have been playing their mains class for countless years know better what we really do or do not need at this point. I'm getting sick of being told that I do or do not need something from someone who doesn't even play the game in their free time, let alone hasn't played my class for countless years. Player / Dev communication needs desperate improvement IMO. They could produce a 2x better product with just a little help from skilled players. Anyway /rant off
Oh yea, I defiantly agree with that Picard and Sarcogian. It's amazing what a little practice, talking with skilled players can do. I wish their were more people like you 2. People saying that monks suck just haven't put enough effort into learning them. My bad as well for going off about nerfs lol, that really wasn't directed at you. Was just me thinking out load more or less. Despite all the nerfs I still LOVE my class and will continue to kick some booty. I just wish the Devs would really listen to players more, it would makes things so much bettter
