Collection Quest Ground Spawns

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by gcubed, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. smash Augur

    I do not have any evidence, but am 100% sure there is something wrong in EW on AB server in regard to Gildorn madman or visionary .
    Why am I so sure about that. Because for the last 1 week, I have not been able to find any gs.
    Am pretty sure there is some spot where they do collect and people cannot get to them, but here people cannot see them compared to Xorbb.

    My solution would be a bit different, ofc. Keep searching for the unreachable spots, but at a thing so that the GS puff after 1 hour of not been found, and let it repop at some other spot.
    Why this, would make so that 1 spot would not end up with all the unreachable gs that people cannot get until a patch. A gs will only be impossible to get for max 1 hour,
  2. Augur Developer

    No ETA on a potential hotfix yet, unfortunately. I'll update here when I hear something.

    This is a confirmed bugged location that should be fixed in the next hotfix. The collection actually does have a ton of spawn locations, but when one of them is bugged, like this one is, all of the spawns end up congregating there over time.

    This is something we discussed early on in the design process for the system, but the reasons you list here are just some of the many negative effects we saw would result from making them lore. In short, we decided not to because any benefits gained from making them lore outweighed the cons. We want these items to have value on the bazaar, but not at the cost of making collecting them obnoxious.

    This is correct. That location you spotted inside the volcano is not bugged, it's just more hidden. Dedicated collectors will learn these tough-to-spot locations over time and be able to take advantage of the multiple spawns that'll likely be there.

    Ah, now I understand. Sorry for the confusion! Yeah, he shouldn't be able to collect any of the items without buying RoF because Collections are a feature of the expansion.

    I'd be wary of being 100% sure of anything, based on anecdotal evidence ;)
    I hopped onto AB and EM today to check this. (I also deleted all of the bad spawns in AB Xorbb while I was there to help people on the minotaur quest).
    There were at least 6 collection items spawned in reachable locations on each server (although two of those items shared a spawn location). My guess is that your issue is stemming from the fact that it is a ridiculously large zone, so there are a lot of potential spots for it to spawn items, and you're simply not running into them. This set does have a few spots that are pretty tough to spot if you're just running on the beaten path, but I haven't found any that are impossible to reach or see.

    I would recommend asking people on your server and fellow collectors on the forums for tips on where in the zone the items for that set typically spawn. Almost all Collections sets are congregated in certain regions of their zone, and knowing where this set tends to spawn may help you find them quicker.
    Imrahil and Keshua like this.
  3. Coruth Augur

    Have you been reading the "Grouping thread" and the problem with Solo Quests that require a group.

    I find a lot of the same issue here, did you consider clicking the collection gives credit to a whole group THEN making the collections a bit rarer. Encourage people to get together and trade clicks or a group to go fight for a "dropped" item without having to worry about winning the role or going to solo the kills.
  4. Keshua Journeyman

    Thanks for the reply. Yea sorry I worded my post a little wrong there. I was thinking that's how all the collections got up there, but I'm glad you came by and verified it for me. :)
  5. Augur Developer

    I have been reading that thread, and brought it up internally for the team to discuss. I don't feel comfortable making a big statement for the group as a whole, but we generally agree that questing with a group should be much less annoying than it is currently in some of the situations presented in that thread .

    We like giving challenges to players that want to group up, and that challenge should fun and demanding, not just cruelly inconvenient.

    We did consider having Collections work that way, and considered different levels of restrictions (have to be in the zone, have to be within X distance). From a technical level, though, we aren't able to give Collection Achievement credit when the object is picked up, only when the item is clicked in the inventory, which can be done at any time after the collecting happens.

    That means that the people in the group when the Collection item is clicked weren't necessarily present when the collection item was earned. That opens up the potential for people to get credit without any effort or cost to them. Our current system offers a way for players to sell the Collections, and we like selling on the bazaar more than sitting in circles in PoK trading clicks. There are other reasons as well, such as players being encouraged to NOT collect the items when they first grab them, or else they're "wasting" potential to do it in a full group, and feeling pressured to sell spots in their group before collecting each item to maximize the potential.

    I do like the idea of building group-centric Collections, but I'd rather do that by putting them in areas with group content or requiring multiple players to spawn/unlock the item.

    I'm glad to help clear it up!
  6. Coruth Augur

    My thought was more that was more that if the collection items were
    1) Group Clicks
    2) Still Tradeable
    3) Rarer by a factor of 2 or 3

    You would still have people using bazaar. But if we got one in group from a drop or explore to drop, a quick conversation would be who needs. if just 1 person needed, they'd probably get it to keep for later (potentially adding others). But if 2+ needed the group would click it before splitting no way to wait till later like you mentioned when the group splits. If 0 needed it would end up a cash loot in bazaar. So most of time, 2+ or 0 need I doubt group collections would be held for later because of groups splitting up

    By making them rarer, and making them where the whole group benefits so less go up for sale, the cost in bazaar would go up. Again approximating a whole group of people buying 1 clicky vs 6 people buying thier own individually clicky.

    As a side note, I'd think doing it this way would actually increase the overall use of collections. I know personally, the shere # of collections is daunting and I am not personally doing them. I know lots of people who aren't doing collections at all. But if I picked up a few from groups clicking and then looked at my collections list only to find Im 1/2 done with one, I'd be motivated to finish off those missing ones. In another words, group clicks would definately get more people started on the collection game, and once started more involved since like many things in EQ starting is the biggest issue.
  7. Ducreux Augur

    Since we have no idea when spawns in Xorbb will be hotfixed could a GM please depop the collectibles on Luclin that are bugged in the aforementioned crevice for "Minotaur Warfare". This is the last collection I and I'm sure others need and at present there are 0 available nodes you can reach.

    I'm sure other servers would appreciate the same treatment as nobody wants to wait until mid-march/april to finish these collections.
  8. Augur Developer

    I understand the design you're going for here, but we don't agree that it would result in more fun gameplay. I'm also a bit skeptical that the items would actually sell for more than they currently are if they're 3x as rare, but can give credit to up to 6 people at a time. The average would probably be 3 or 4 credits per click, so that would actually leave room for them to be less valuable than they are now.

    If we see that Collections are not being used by a large majority of the player population (we don't see that as the case right now, as far as I know), then we would definitely need to look into why players don't want to start Collecting (too many items? too much work? too much inventory space?) and then how we can make the system more inherently appealing to those players.

    I don't think giving people the first hits free is the best solution to that problem. I'd rather find a way that makes the collection system more fun, rather than sort of tricking people into feeling like they have to finish it because they're halfway.

    That all said, like I mentioned earlier, I do like the concept of a group-centric Collection. But I think letting Collection items give group credit to everyone, regardless of whether or not they were present when the item was found adds more negatives to the overall experience than it benefits the group game (although it does benefit it, in the ways you mentioned). Thanks for the back and forth on this—it's an interesting idea that we also debated internally for awhile!

    EDIT: Do you usually pursue collection-type systems in other games (MMOs or otherwise)? I know our Collection list can be daunting, but I'm curious if you feel the same way about other collection systems, or if they present them in a different way that makes them feel more conquerable to you.

    You could try submitting a ticket, but I can't guarantee they'll be able to help. They have a lot of issues to handle at any given time. On the plus side, mid-March isn't too far off :)
  9. Fenthen Augur

    Are you guys able to perform a single zone repop to correct bugged spawns hoarding all of the collections?
    (mind you, I've completely finished my collections)
  10. Augur Developer

    It is technically possible, but requires someone to manually log into every server, teleport to the zone, and execute the repop. Considering how quickly the spawns tend to congregate back at bugged locations, it's a significant time investment.

    I know it's a frustrating inconvenience to have to wait for the patch to get these last few locations fixed. We apologize again, and thank everyone for your patience.
  11. Augur Developer

    I'm going to be building some new Collections this week and would love to hear feedback on 3 things:

    1. Do you think collection spawns are too easy or too difficult to find/reach?
    2. Do you prefer the sets that have more total spawns active, but are spread across a larger geographical area (Shard's Landing animal tracks) or the ones that have fewer spawns but are all condensed in a small area (Shard's Landing outcast camp)?
    3. Is there anything else you would like to see done differently with spawn locations (not the system as a whole)?
  12. Kurayami Augur

    1. I think they are just about right as they are, as long as the location is in fact reachable :)
    2. I prefer more active spawns rather than have everyone huddled up waiting for a few spawns, gives everyone a better chance to get what they need.
    3. I enjoy your use of mining carts and other little hard to notice places really, more of that would be cool to make it a real easter egg hunt. Also be pretty sweet if some of them were on moving geography (if any of that exists in the new Shadows of Fear stuff).
  13. Fenthen Augur

    1 - Ground collections are great, mob drops are often too uncommon or too rare. It takes several characters to farm a specific set of mobs for hours, and each character needs one. That's just not fun. Running around / exploring is much more worthwhile.
    2 - Sets based on geographic location make more sense to me, and you (as a collector) can concentrate on one area as opposed to the entire zone.
    3 - I'd like to see faster timers, even if it means more spawn locations (maybe 20 locations, 5 active at a time, or whatnot). Is it possible to have instant, or near instant (1-2 ticks) respawn to a new location?
  14. Augur Developer

    Haha, I hear that!

    I'd love to hear more opinions on this. Do you like the diversity of having some on drops, so that increasing the drop rate is enough? Or would you rather just have all Collections be ground spawns?

    On a technical level, we can make spawns happen extremely quickly after one is taken. Currently it's a random value between 30 and 60 seconds, which I'm fairly happy with. I'd be surprised if anyone is collecting them fast enough to churn through spawns that quickly. They'd have to collect 6-8 spawns in less than 30 seconds and then collect 1 every 45 seconds on average for the delay to be a problem. My guess is that it's more an issue of the spawns being so far apart or not all visible from one location, so that while you might think one didn't spawn, it actually did, just not where you can see it right away.
  15. Ducreux Augur

    Loved the collections for RoF, would like to see something like a zonewide rare drop collection. Instead of farming specific mobs all mobs in a specific zone have a chance to drop a secondary "rarer" collection (think 25 purity aug rare) with the rarest piece being around former expansion zonewide nodrop items.

    This would give a bonus reward for just doing content in the zone and would be another fun "chase" collection for people already interested in collections but not wanting to farm the same mob type/camp over and over.

    edit: maybe put these on their own achievement so people not interested in the larger timesink don't feel pressured to complete this as well.
    Augur likes this.
  16. Kurayami Augur

    I personally like that some drops are from mobs only. It seems to get bottlenecked a lot though, IE you have to kill gelatinous cubes in xorbb, undead knights in chapter, etceteras. As a bit of a merchant in the baz I love this and will continue to extort people as long as this is left an option, but it really does seem to be causing issues if I can get 35k within an hour or two for ONE collection item. The killing for drops isn't the problem, the specific mobs only is the issue for most people. Not everyone can just pick up a couple boxes and go to town in any zone late at night to farm like this.

    The respawn rate on ground spawns, if it is new one after 30-60 seconds, that is perfectly acceptable. If anyone is having issues with this quick of turn around, your talents should be used on e-sports and not here, lol.
    Augur likes this.
  17. Augur Developer

    Today is apparently I-ask-you-questions day.

    Do you read the advanced lore text on the Collection items? Would you read it if it was listed in the Achievement window under each item, or appeared as a message in the chat when it's collected?
  18. Elizabeta Augur

    I think the concept of "rares" on mob-dropped should be eliminated. It is really sad when a group of six people have every collection item... except the rare.
    BlankStare_001 likes this.
  19. Elizabeta Augur

    The advanced lore is nice, but i wish the collection group were stated on the main tab (the This item is part of the Soandso collection)
  20. Iila Augur

    The lore text is kinda cool, and putting it in more places can't hurt.

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