Classes locked to expansions is bad for TLP players

And the people that want to pick the class but not before it is fully released have to suck it up or play something else until SoL/GoD? Seems like it would be easier to release it when all the content is ready for it.

And people will complain about anything heck it wasn't that long ago that people complained about too much loot on raid chests because it took too long to hand out.

I mean people have complained that they want GoD unlocked on Agnarr soooooo....

Which is equally ridiculous.

Published rule sets don't mean that releasing content that is not complete is acceptable. I would argue that the server was launched with GoD so they could have Beastlords and Berserkers available at launch. If that was not the cause they could have just stuck with the level cap + 10 for which expansions are going to be unlocked like they did with future expansions.

I mean the funny thing is 90% of what people lobby for on ForumQuest is ridiculous. The people clamoring for these short-sighted and poorly thought out changes don't see it as ridiculous. And neither you nor I are the arbiters of what is and isn't ridiculous, technically speaking. But what we can pretty accurately predict is that people will push and push to get their inch. Staff will cave and give them their inch. Then shortly after people will begin pushing again so they can get their mile.

It's a lot easier to run a mile when it's broken up into legs than to run it all at once.

whoosh

Random loot sounded ridiculous at one time too

Having beastlords and berzerkers in at launch sounds tame by comparison.

I think that staff wanting to make their players happy is a good thing. When I'm fortunate enough to get direct feedback from users I'm able to answer directly to their needs and pain points. Ultimately my goal is to deliver a positive experience for users.

Agnarr was a direct response to user feedback, we want a server that stops in PoP. It can stand on its own as the server that stops in PoP and nothing about that needs to change. It continues to serve its purpose for those users that asked for a PoP locked environment and would stop serving its purpose were that to change.

Asking for these classes to be included in the base game addresses different pain points for a different set of users. By the time they are available, the population has largely moved on. Playing one of these classes immediately puts you at a disadvantage. The unavailability of these classes discourages participation in the early game due to the lost time investment on the majority of servers. This thread suggests an initial step in integrating these classes into the core game to address these pain points. There may be future steps needed to fully integrate them, but proponents are willing to sacrifice full integration for the benefits that partial integration bring.

Agnarr is a fundamentally different scenario than what we're talking about in this thread.

If you ignore all the potential issues from content related to the classes that is locked behind the expansion that introduces them.

And it should be noted that just because users ask for something doesn't mean it should be done.

Implying that they didn't have to fix a bunch of issues with the random loot ruleset. Any codebase change has the potential to introduce problems, and they can be fixed.

Agreed, but it should be considered and communicated as to the reasoning if it won't be done.

Correct any change does have the potential to introduce bugs but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be done. The issue with classes that are introduced in an expansion is you have content that is also locked to that expansion and not all of that is possible to untie from the expansion without a lot of work.

I do agree with you on that and having a dev communicate on how they feel would be good.

Just look at all the potential issues

Which ones

Epic

Besides epic

Epic

Yeah I know that but you said there were a whole lot of potential issues, what are they?

Epic

Someone is a literal personification of a broken record here.

You're boring the literal crap out of everyone & it is just you, one singular "crusader for the potential issues" which amount to 2 epic quests that everyone else is 100% aware of & perfectly happy to wait for unlocking.

It's like you are arguing on the behalf of 10,000 imaginary people & only you can speak for them.

I've invited you to list out some real problems for us to discuss & you can't, because you never had any to begin with you have epics & that is all you got & you knew it was weak so you tried to fluff it up a bit.

What happened? did that kid you really hate in kindergarten get picked for the debate team over you? Cuz I can totally see why you lost out with your one dimensionsal single issue platform that you try to portray as a legion of terrible problems you absolutely must speak out on, you, the chosen one, champion of lost causes.

If you unbogged your mind with hostile nonsense like this, you'd realize that what you really want is a class change potion specific to beastlords at luclin launch and berserkers at gates launch, that converts existing gear to class-appropriate gear. It's less work for the devs and solves the problem of investing in a character for raiding. It also rewards their time spent with money.

I played P99 back when it was still just original. Got a monk to level 48, did some raids, etc. Had to quit before Kunark or Velious came out, and wasn't able to play when Green launched, or I probably would be there. Personally, I would enjoy playing through at least PoP, maybe GoD or further, but I've never played GoD or beyond. I'm hopeful to on Yelinak, depending on how real life goes, because it was just never something I got to do back in the day.

And I would say if it was a quality of life improvement, and not a change to gameplay, I'm ok with it. So things like Advanced loot, tab targeting, clicking items in bag, shared bank, not a big deal to my mind. Those make it easier to access things you can already do in game. If the compass is tied to a sense heading skill, cool. Maps... I honestly feel like maps change the way you interact with the game. there's something to be said for that "Oh F I'm completely lost" feeling and really needing to explore a zone to get to know it. Even little things like the fog of war being so far out nowadays. On a progression server, I can practically see Kelethin from Felwithe. It really takes away from the ambiance of being in an ancient and vast forest when you can just hit M, auto walk in a direction, and see your goal immediately. In P99, with the fog, you can still get lost.

But like I GET it, DPG needs to have a game that's accessible to a modern day audience that doesn't want that harsh nostalgia. I get that we're not going to do away with Kronos. I get that instanced raids are a necessary evil, and that telling players they can't have maps would be silly, and forcing you to level sense heading for a compass would be equally dumb. But you throw focus effects that change how you gear yourself, and add instance picks so everyone can camp in the best camp in the best zone and not go anywhere else, and turn a blind eye to rampant mass boxing hoarding all the cash camps, and have potions where you can't fail your combines to you can buy your way through tradeskills, and all that kind of thing. It makes it really hard to get invested and feel like it's a level playing field.

In the end, if P99 does recycle their green server and start fresh one of these days, I am 100% out and headed over there to play, even if it does stop at velious. That's not to say I wouldn't also play a TLP just to maybe do some later content though, I just find the P99 experience tremendously more enjoyable, and could see myself staying there longer.

what are you even talking about? class change potions??

What problem would occur by allowing BST / BER at a classic launch? They have to add a spell / tome vendor in classic cities? Would they be too strong (lolmonk)? Too weak? Honest question here.

Because I don't know every potential issue that could happen by unlocking those classes at the beginning the problems I can easily see should be ignored? You sound like a broken record with your constant complaints about having to start with a different class each TLP server.

You still can't explain why the only server that started with Berserkers unlocked also started with GoD instead of following the rest of the unlock pattern and starting unlocking expansions 10 levels above the current level cap which would be just classic and no expansions.