Class Balance

Only as long as none under the age of 18 posts on them. cause then its Free child labor and that is bad. we could (should?) get the government to shut down threads as the say all end all due to the child labor laws! Forbid if they did it for free!

grab your Nerf bats & guns! were going Orbis hunting! (okay i couldn't resist this one)

It's not even all mobs. Eg on Vitio I can parse quite high (top 5, occasionally 1st) if I get perfect support setup and a bit of luck. Others I'm lucky if I reach top 10 (Captain Tita being one example) and get beaten by non-dps classes. Trash I seem OK on (is that because AC is low or due to slackers? Who knows!) while other events I spend huge amount of time doing nothing because it's a "ranged event" (/yawn). While a mix is fine, the balance is tilted more heavily against melee this time around.

Most melee don't want to be top all of the time and personally I love a good close battle, but we do want some investigation into certain mechanics to see whether they've been overtuned.

People can say valid complaints about unbalanced abilities/spells/aa's/stances are cries for nerfs and only hurt ''everyone'', but that isn't going to make it case. Unbalanced/over powered classes hurt the game far more. Recently, my hubby main changed from zerker to wiz for obvious reasons. Luckily he's in guild that honored dkp switch/char swap etc. with ease. A lot of folks just straight up quit when they go through ''long'' periods of their class not bringing to table what they should. No reason you should have classes that get destroyed at their only niche for long periods of time, without even being told an end is remotely in sight or in the works

Someone a page or two back questioned the ability for an enchanter to continually and repeatedly get Chrono Haze to proc. It can be done, and has been done. It hurts the enchanter's personal DPS but greatly improves the wizards and magicians grouped with said enchanter.

Honestly I know that that "sploit" needs to change. Nothing is wrong with the actual ability, just the "sploit" way.

I do think melee need some love on raids as far as survivability. There are some pretty bad anti melee effects nowadays, and my alt melee has gone from 100 to 0 instantaneously without me having a split second to react. Some of it just needs to be reduced in its severity so that melee can have fun too.

Eh I'd have to disagree with you there, it is absolutely all mobs in TDS. Here's last nights Vitio parse where I had full ADPS and didn't back out for emote since I knew I could fail one.

/g Praetor Vitio in 92s, 17286k @187887dps - Behelit + pets 17286k @187887dps
/tell Behelit Behelit -vs- Praetor Vitio: -- DMG: 17256235 -- DPS: 187568 -- Scaled: 187568 -- Pierce: 12095507 -- DirDmg: 2001750 -- Slash: 1705477 -- Hit: 927033 -- Frenzy: 526468 -- Non-crit rate: 36.8% -- crit rate: 63.2% -- Attempts: 1140 -- Hits: 1071 -- Missed: 69 -- Accuracy: 93.9% -- Avg Hit: 16112 -- Max hit: 82475 -- DMG to PC: 286549

more specifically lets look at my Piercing critical hit graph


as you can see I'm hitting on the lower end of the spectrum for criticals more often than I'm getting my max criticals. compare this to back in CotF on a mob like Deathmaster Sarenth with a duration of roughly the same as the Vitio parse above /tell Behelit Behelit -vs- Deathmaster Sarenth: -- DMG: 21919249 -- DPS: 184195 -- Scaled: 184195 -- Slash: 19103751 -- DirDmg: 1658768 -- Hit: 629726 -- Frenzy: 527004 -- Non-crit rate: 40.1% -- crit rate: 59.9% -- Attempts: 1209 -- Hits: 1146 -- Missed: 63 -- Accuracy: 94.8% -- Avg Hit: 19126 -- Max hit: 93115 -- DMG to PC: 152685


In CotF I was seeing a ratio of nearly 2:1 for max hits: min hits (values above and below the large spikes are from slashing skill attacks/procs). All the TDS raid mobs mitigate hits in this way and cripple melee damage output. I'm essentially at 70% of the autoattack damage I was doing on burns a year ago with a worse weapon and 5 less level of AA/spells. I gained 4% crit chance and somehow my avg hit went down by 3k with a weapon that has 23 more damage than my old CotF wep.

It's really disheartening that some people dont see a problem with all this.

As much as it kills me to say, I don't find this entirely true. It doesn't hurt Enchanter personal DPS if they nuke intelligently. It will actually boost your DPS, for fewer nukes cast overall, saving you more mana in the long run... by a lot. You may see a slight drop in Wiz/Mage DPS if you are personally nuking but they can only cast so fast that proccing a million times a second doesn't provide any added benefit.

Of course, as already said a million times, unless your Enchanters have no job on your raids aside from being ADPS & buff bots, this isn't happening constantly and if/when it is, it's likely a fraction of the population, mainly isolated to high end raiding guilds. So all these assumptions that casters topping the parse every raid is due to Haze 'sploits are just wrong. All of the parses I have with "intended" haze procs for Arx raids still show casters in the lead almost every time.

That is why I find this whole thread rather hilarious. Most Enchanters don't do this even if they know about it. Melee may see a fix as a victory in their race for the parse but it's not going to change anything.

Zerkers have been dying for years before most of these abilities in question existed. Like Illa would say, 'Feel free to roll a new character', which in this case, your hubby did.

This, along with removing some anti-melee mechanics (hello, Arx 3) and reducing the AC on TDS raid mobs, is by far the most sane solution. There very well might be more that's required, but tuning around excessive Chromatic Haze, rampant melee death, and high AC levels won't result in balance in the long run.

I always wanted to be high end

Did someone say Zerker ? I think im the only one left be it dead or alive in game. Silv knows how much I die , arx 5 is so enjoyable, calix owns u because ramp tank is mia, calix owns u because y tank is dead lany summons u for no apparent reason u die , spark owns you for mechanic reasons. Never die to reapers but casters do.

I think on all of our attempts on Arx 5 I only died once and had a reasonable dps parse not in comparison to casters but in general caster dps is significantly higher which is fine. Boost the rest of the melee and hybrids that require a boost.

Im not sure but in relation to a previous post with Discs being reduced to 10 to 12 mins , my cripple is still double that with AA and is garbage to begin with. My warcry HH effect ability well everyone has it and it used to be the complaint back in the day and its still on a 20+ min timer.

Decap, assassinate, headshot were eye candy flavor abilities, that's all and it will always affect lower level mobs with expansions in relation to level increase.

I have played my zerker from the shaker paging days in plane of fire from POP expansion , ya it was OP so that got nerfed, Zerkers back in the day were very powerful and could out dps almost any class .

This new stuff with open wound to activate abilities lowering hp to 89 percent and frenzied resolve combined with Blind rage is silly at best when you take into account all the aoe spell effect ramp dmg self dmg. I don't know any class that has to fight blind weak with a dot and against a mob that cannot move due to root. sry but you can all go to hell with your complaints of stacking issues.

SS6 was a buff for a while and it was great , it stacked with brutal disc,jugger so we could do insane burns not unlike this chromatic haze stacking issue.

The issue was resolved in 1 week and gone , which is fine it was overpowered.

I am the first to die after a tank , I am the first to gain agro on anything due to deaggro abilities and fade abilities being sub par, Often people like to think that FD pots are the solution. You are sadly Wrong, with a 6.5 min fade I can hardly do anything except save it if I need to regen endurance after a death when my breather rk 3 fades off . My endurance Canni gives me 10 percent endurance .. OH JOY.

Zerkers are the 2nd highest critting classes in the game next to necromancers. I would say its a tie only that we are dead too early to tell.

One issue that people don't recognize is that backstab gives rogues a significant dmg boost where they need it , Monks get their kick that can do 800k crits on par with rogue backstabs to catch up in dps, Berserkers get frenzy , Nuff said you can lookup that ability. Oh by the way Frenzy has a shorter use ability than a melee swing if you wanted to know. Did you know our throwing axes are shorter than any throwing weapon out there. What happened to wielders of Axes and Powerful Throwing axes. I guess it got lost in translation.

I say Nerfing is pointless , BEEF up the Offtanks like SK's and Pallies , Having 6 warriors to beat an end game raid is a stupid reliance.

Developers Are not concerned with previous content, They have said it before and they tune the content based on Full end tier gear, if you don't think so try out the grp gear in TDS its wonderful.

Berserkers have been in need of improvement , and frenzy was supposed to be that tool to improve overall sustained DPS as does the backstab ability and kick for monks , I still see kick mods on berserker gear. and we are capped at 125 frenzy mod for dmg , there are no frenzy percentage based items in the game.

Over countless expansions I have played the zerker from POP on till I gave up somewhere around that Void ABCD expansion and gave up because the nerf bat from the caster complaints were just too much to ignore and the Devs do not play berserkers, I am certain of this as there is no way a class that is so dependant on Adps to stand a chance in doing dmg can be balanced without that counterpart, We can do hardly any dmg alone unlike our caster brethren or even hybrids to a point.


Anyhow a point of a class that is under 1 percent of the overall eq population


IK was here

Just wondering how you played a Zerker in POP, when that expansion came out a year before Zerkers were in Game?

But yeh Zerkers are terrible right now.

IK played a Pally during POP and a Zerker right after. I believe that is what was meant. Nitpicker!

Just cause I've seen this twice now... The way Chromatic Haze stacks (or anything to do with how the buff portion founctions) is not what's concerning some. It's the means by which the buff can be procced.

Its easy , just hop over to plane of tranquility , Duh oh and btw leveling a zerker from level 1 when GOD came out , you were likely in the POP expansion but thx for your 2 cents.

IK was here

I only mentioned it in relation to Chromatic Haze is because we never know what the Devs intend or know , unfortunately they don't share their details with us on any basis whatsoever until its done and when something isn't intended or needs to be rectified right away it is ,as was the SS6 issue.

In his defense, IK is the longest tenured zerker I've ever conversed with. He's been one as long as the class existed.

What up IK, sir!?

Shouldn't that mushroom be a star? =P

Oh and BTW , there is something called beta , I was playing a zerker when pop was live if you want to get fancy mr nitpicker , I like that name silv,

Back when the only weapon we could wield was the weapon given to us at level 1 , try getting to level 40 with a level 1 weapon!!. its enjoyable

IK was here

why any guild even has zerkers at this point who knows all we do is hold the raid back. Our dps is crap you can replace any zerker with a group wizard and get more dps and less deaths.

Of course the developers know about the serious balance issues but they simply do not care or it is not a priority.

Zerkers should be given a free Lv 105 Heroic Character.

Could you provide melee DPS graphs as comparison, kk pls thx?!

Hey Sheex its been a long time, yeah ive been around too long , took a break after a few dozen Bats hit me but im back and alive, Thank god for the games actual enjoyable part. The people and the conversation. I really do miss Emodius and C4 though , swampfunk was a baby when I hit 60.!

Still cant believe I was the first zerker to hit 60 missed out on 70 75 but I got 80 and 85 with illest Best bard ever!!!!

IK was here