The easy solution would be a buff off our bard Dicho similar to our BP click with a cycling down short buff. The first level of the buff lasts 8 seconds during that time it adds a conversion buff and additional Dps effects that return end mana hp based on % of damage done the second level just provides additional dps. The numbers and % can be adjusted but this would be a better fix to Dicho for bards and address the dps issue. Damage bonus Endurance Recovery Mana recovery HP Recovery level 1 adds +25 skill damage taken 5% of mele damage 10% nuke damage 15% of damage +10% cast damage + 15% twinproc +15% twincast effects last 8 sec ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Next level +15 skill damage no carry over no carry over no carry over +5% cast damage +4 Twinpoc +4 Twincast Fades after 10 Sec ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need an increase to dots - to make them worth using. And an increase to baseline DPS. Not burst. Not more buttons to click. Just an increase to what we already have.
You do realize dots were increased but as a balance dps tool dots make no sense for bards our dots eat to many buff slots and if you raid there will be stacking issues with other bards in addition you would get screamed at for eating a dot or debuff slot that could block a more useful effect. Our dps fix should be group based and have some kind of echo effect based on group makeup. If we are with casters we get a DD bonus effect increasing song proc damage maybe a 100% twincast effect when triggered If we are in a melee group to get a 100 hand effect,,, mass flurry trigger... Stat cap limit break songs....possibly? The reason we are also not looked at for balance issues is that they keep saying they dont fully understand bard code.... they have been saying if for years now look how far we are behind classes that didnt even exist in the original game has more adps burst and more direct dps than us.
The easiest way to boost bards DPS is to give them a sustained disci or increases to their damage AA wise. Or maybe make the proc benefits from arcane melody/suffering much greater for a bard and increase our insults to crit for ~250k+
There is more to this game than raiding. Also, a 50 point (not 50%, 50 points) increase in DoTs when other classes are getting 300%+ upgrades... isn't really an upgrade.
If bards need a dps increase, buffing the dicho is the wrong way to do it. That just gives bards more ADPS by a ton - which affects the whole group, not the bard.
People still think bards are some sort of King ADPS? wake up.. everyone just about is ADPS.. Even Kings of DPS zerkers.. Cry Carnage 100% uptime 1: Increase Chance to Critical Hit by 100% with All Skills 6: Increase Accuracy by 22% Ancient Cry of Chaos 2: Hundred Hands Effect 11: Increase ATK by 60 Fury's Synergy 1: Cast: Fury's Synergy I on Spell Use (100% Chance) 3: Increase Chance to Crippling Blow by 20% 2: Limit Spells: Demolishing Frenzy ============ Those people that think bards are some superior ADPS please elaborate on what abilities provide this ADPS and how much? and for what classes... some think they know but literally have no clue. probably same people that think singing songs that add <1% ADPS is more important than running nukes or even dots for that matter. ============ I can tell you this right now a bard does not make all the ADPS for a good melee group. a bard is merely 1/3 of the puzzle or less. Caster groups really bards do nothing. Ench is king there. Back when dicho was all cool sure bards were something to desire. Having another wizard in the slot of a bard in a caster group will more than make up for any ADPS lost. melee group there is RNG, BL, SHM, BRD, ZERK, ROG all of which are providing ADPS. I dont think rog does much ADPS but i think there is something there. BL is so much ADPS its night and day with melee groups with or without one. RNG is not only providing ADPS to the group but also to the entire raid. SHM, well now some new DPS class, also has to link epics with bards epic for all that to work perfectly. I know people like to omit buffs but shm buffs are great. between AA and Spells im sure there is ~ a dozen ore more ADPS things they are added. Not to mention keeping melee groups up all by them self.
1. Other classes can adps but not like bards (a single cooldown is worlds of differnce than 100% uptime adps). 1a. Before you respond, bards also have cooldown adps 2. This has nothing to do with adps. A dps boost for bards is completely different than adps.
Wouldn't something that boost dps by 400%, 25% of the time be the same as something that boosts dps 100%, 100% of the time? The problem bards have is that many other classes have effects on the same slots that do more, thus the reason they are not as good as they once were. Bards need some lovin, except nniki!
If you can do a 400% effect for a set time, and it stacks with other burn abilities and adps, that is way more beneficial than a flat 100% effect would be. Being able to time that sort of benefit can make a drastic difference vs a lesser permanent benefit. I wouldn't be bothered at all if bards did a bit more dps. Maybe not beastlord/ranger levels, but honestly if bards started beating me on the parse, I wouldn't be as bothered by it as the tanks getting that sort of thing. I don't know, give them stronger crits or something to the point where they half the size of the gap from where they are now to where rangers/beastlords are. That seems reasonable. Or maybe give them a dps mode where they can't do adps? I don't know.
I agree with Sliders. The issue is bards shouldn't compete with a dps class and bring all their songs on top of it.
This is a snapshot of Class DPS over several weeks of raid nights combined. (nightly parses are usually ~1.5 hours of combat) Does not include new shm stuff so they would be up there too. A peak Zerker has been well over 1.1M DPS on say Grummus fight. Peak numbers for all classes tend to be ~5-6x the avg. Casters numbers could be higher than indicated due to parse range (especially necro). Pet classes could be higher due to exclusion of primary pets in parses. We don't have slouch bards either so the numbers are fair. Zerkers could very well be on course for the nerf bat. But not really any reason what so ever for bards to be that low. adjusting bard dps to be 2-3x higher would be fair in today's EQ. Bards do not have nor on the horizon of having the amount of ADPS to justify being as low as they are.
You're committing the classic mistake of providing a parse without enough context. This usually causes a lot of discord, heh. What events did you guys do that these parses consisted of? In addition, who did the parsing? If you got the parses from each individual class lead that's not only the right way to go, but it's also very impressive. But based on the Necro numbers, I'm betting you didn't depending on the events in question. I would guess that your beastlords could use a bit of help, but without really knowing more about the parse, it's just useless conjecture. Additionally, people tend to neglect that parses are often sort of guild dependent. I bet that if you took a parse of 8 different guilds all raiding the same content, the end results would be absolutely inconclusive except in regard to that berserkers are amazing, wizards are pretty good, and bards are low dps. But that said, it would still probably show this issue for bards. Also, where are your monks?
That was my question.. wtf are the monks? Lol... Bards have always been bottum shelf dps due to versatility. To think they will ever be competing pure melee is silly talk. Do they need a boost? Sure i can agree to that.. it depends on to what degree your expecting them to be competetive to. Should they cimpete with monks rogues rangers etc and rival their dps? Not a chance. Bards are in the same boat as Monks currently. Alot of neglect in the past has led to current situations. And their recent work on dot revamps and sk/ enc nerfs seem pretty self explanitory where the problems of bard/monks lie. Heck theyve seem 500k zerk parses and have not said a word. All dps classes need to be more inline with eachother.
EoK & TBM events.. number fluctuation is expected but the amount of time on these parses really keeps everything in comparison. I have ship loads of data. Far more than i am going to show here. As stated necros are probably lower. Enchanters due to some events could drag those numbers down some. I have seen some crazy numbers on ench on some events. Rangers as well on some events will drag their parse numbers down some. BL & Mages are lower due to parse stuff with pets. also on avg our BL crew is not top. If just looking at our best BL they avgs would be closer if not surpass Ranger. Wiz & Zerk = Very solid and consistent Rog & RNG = Most solid. couple not so much Bards = Most solid. only downfall is the one that is stuck in necro group and or overflow group. If i excluded necro group bard the numbers wont go up all that much. Perhaps total about 40K at best. That being said sometimes even other DPS classes end up in non optimum group so any exclusion to make one class look better can be easily made to look another class look better. It all avgs out. like i said peaks are fairly close to 5-6x the avg. bards are literally so lucky to ever hit 200k on grummus. 1/5 a zerker, 1/2 - 1/3 other hybrid. Bards are literally a check standard for poor dps performers. You get out DPS by a bard it means you did something very very wrong. It is very disheartening to only have a chance to out parse other classes if only they suck.
If thats true, I agree bards do need a dps increase. But it should be a personal dps increase. If its adps, it will just conflate all the current balance problems.
I like mechanics that can become complex to get the most out of, but are rather simple. How about giving bards a strong nuke that blocks out their ability to sing other songs for 12 seconds, and the ability to redo the nuke for 6 seconds? Even if it just blocked everything for a flat 6 seconds, that could be neat and would provide compromises to make depending on the situation.
Then by this logic, DPS classes should not be able to do ADPS. Which would be fine. The problem is these "DPS" classes also bring ADPS which is often equal or better than what bards can bring, plus all their dps. How is that fair? you are basically rendering the bard class obsolete.
