Bard DPS increase required..

Behind all classes but prob clerics.. the old, we are adps, line is growing mold.

It is well overdue for bards to be equal to other hybrids. No reason for bards to be dead last and nothing more than a slack dps cleck.

If bards did the same damage as beastlords and rangers, yet brought all the crazy stuff to a group they do, it would be op.

Bards could use an upgrade, but not equal to other hybrids, if you were on par with a BL or Ranger, then you might as well give clerics dps equal to that of a zerker

Considering the huge amount of ADPS that RNG & BST add now days, it is not much of a stretch anymore that Bards should have more DPS.

RNG & BST in your group will do more for you than a Bard.

I agree, Bards should not be EQUAL to those Hybrids, but they should be A LOT CLOSER (like in the 80% range).

This is no where near as drastic as giving a Cleric a Zerker's DPS..... that is just silly.
Bard/BST/RNG share a lot of the same utility and DPS, but BST/RNG can heal too.
Zerker/Cleric are polar opposites, Zerker can not heal at all, so this is not a good comparison.

Rangers and Bst are not in the same league as bards for adps.
Sure they have some nice burn stuff, but nothing sustained.
Ranger gives the casters +300 attack buff? wohoo....
Bard gives casters +40% spell damage. WOHOO
again this is long term affects, not short burn abilities.

Would be nice to give clerics a bit more dps (shamans can heal pretty damn close to clerics if not better on some content, even their alliances are better... and now their (a)dps is amazing).

Bards need more aDPS similar to rangers and bsts now. Something has to change.

Actually, the dps/heal hierarchy is so messed up now....

Without breaking the game to give bards more DPS give them extended flurry of notes and frenzied kicks, make them last longer and give their swarm pets a buff so the actually do damage. Not game breaking but would give them a little extra.

But with Bard focus AA to their insults and dots there are bards out there that can break 100k and that's pretty good, can they sustain. 100k prolly not but slight bumps like I suggested could be a start.

As much as I would LOVE to see Bards get a significant DPS boost, I think at this point it's about time to throw in the towel. Bards have been asking for more DPS for a while now, and we don't even get acknowledged at all. As a class, we just have to accept the way things are and that they aren't likely to change anytime soon. Having unrealistic expectations of our class and what it's capable of will only make it less and less fun to play.

That being said, one thing that I DO think is a reasonable request is to have something done to compensate for our Dicho gutting. Yes, I'm still bitter about that, as many other Bards are. Sure, it WAS overpowered and needed adjustment, but it ended up getting flat out decimated to the point of uselessness.

The Dicho line for all classes was originally promised to be powerful, class-defining abilities. For Bards, that would logically suggest some form of significant ADPS boost, given that is considered to be the main role of the class. It ended up being a sort of indirect ADPS tool with its massive mana recovery potential (for casters, and especially hybrids) while the direct ADPS portion of the ability was disappointingly mediocre at best.

I have been playing my Bard as a raiding main for three years and some change now, and for the most part I thoroughly enjoy the class, despite its obvious shortcomings. While I intend to continue to play as such, it would still be really great to see SOMETHING done to improve/change the dynamic of the Bard experience.

As usual, though, I unfortunately expect our requests to go unnoticed by the powers that be.

Are you purposely ignoring Beast Dicho/Ruabri/Fero?

Ranger GGOTF/Auspice/Cheetah?

No I wasn't. I specifically said I was talking about sustained effects. Auspice, ggotf, cheetah, ect - these things are clickies with refresh times.
They are not always running, hence not sustained.
Bard songs are always running - hence sustained adps. Much more powerful

Um you have to add everything together to get sustained, thus the meaning of sustained. Burns help bring sustained up. You have to put all those clicks in, not just auto attack and bard songs to make your sustained #'s.

You sound like the guy that saves his defensive discs for named only. clicks don't count cause I save them all for the named........

No offense, but if those are the two examples you could come up with, not sure you really have the familiarity with ADPS to make an informed comment. Only counting "long term affects [sic]" completely skews any comparison and is pretty disingenuous.

Rangers have Auspice, which is a massive boost for the entire raid in terms of critical chance, and Scarlet Cheetah is also a strong ADPS ability. And for bards, you're neglecting to mention Epic and Fierce Eye, which are up 2/3 of the time and also provide large critical chance boosts to casters. I can't pull crit rates in the high 90's for 10-15 minutes on raids because of bard songs....

Quite frankly bard aria does almost nothing for Wizards and the material boost to Mages is via the swarm pet enhancements, not the SPA 124 modifier. Necros are the only DPS caster that really sees a benefit from that enhancement.

I don't think bards should be doing Beastlord level DPS (and certainly not DPS comparable to where Rangers currently are), but the current state of their DPS makes no sense. I think if there was a way to show exactly how much DPS was contributed by each class via ADPS, you would be surprised.

However, I also don't think the current DPS output of certain non-DPS classes is necessarily a justification for massively boosting bards, since I think most reasonable people would agree that the DPS of those classes is somewhat out of whack.

Swing and a miss!

Don't nerf my class (or my pet!), boost others! I'm srsly!

His comments lead me to believe that either his Ranger's do not set up a proper Auspice chain or he does not have a triggers/timers for it so is unaware.

As for Aria and Necros... That is increasingly becoming situational since Aria does not stack with Necro Hand of Death AA or the Proc from the Blood Nuke which is actually used/proced now because it also procs our Synergy. As blasphemous as it is, Chanter > Bard in many situations for Necros now too. It doesn't help that Aria (same with HoD & Blood proc) doesn't modify Necro Fast DoTs due to their duration which are generally the way to go on trash clears and the group game.

Edit: Bards and Aria are great for boosting Chanter and Shaman DPS though. Which goes back to the whole everyone else can DPS except Bards issue...

Speaking as a melee DPS on raids, I'll take a good BST in my group over a Bard if I have the choice.

Going to get roughly the same sustained help from either class and way more burn help from the BST.

I am not going to argue specifics but the BST & RNG ADPS buffs are extremely significant to both burn and sustained DPS these days. This is clearly evident in melee raid parses with different group set ups.

Not to mention SHM ENCH are owning Bards in personal DPS now while also contributing massive ADPS and utility.

Seriously, did anyone read my post?
No where did I say I was talking about a raid set up where you have enough rangers to keep these abilities up on the group/raid.

Just single bard vs single ranger. SUSTAINED ABILITIES

Yep we read it, your still not understanding, you have to click everything you have every time its up to be considered sustained.

Beast Dicho is 30% uptime and it's a massive increase to sustained for a handful of classes (especially Knights/Zerks/Warriors, I would fancy a guess it's pretty stout for dual wielders too, but don't have parses)

If I had to choose between a Beast or a Bard for group content. I'd sure miss Selos.

No sorry they are already ruining class balance with priest doing necro dps

They can use a dps boost but not on par with bst/ranger sorry

Are you truly defining "sustained" abilities as solely ones with 100% uptime?

If so, on Forum-quest, you're gonna have a bad time!