I'm on board with bards having more dps. I've said this in almost every post on this thread that I've made. I'm also speaking from experience that dwarves yours in this area because I used to play a class that can pull extremely well, and I undervalued it. I now play a class that cannot pull and I see the value it holds, even in the current game and content. If you think pulling means nothing, then play a beastlord for 2 years. Coming from a class like a bard, I'm sure your mindset will suddenly become much more like mine is now. In a similar fashion, Duhbeast seems to know all about pulling since he tells me things I knew before his character even existed for reasons I don't fully understand. I guess he wants to establish himself more. I'm sure you're a great beastlord man. Thanks for the helpful tip. You don't have to fight me. I'm not some opponent. I'm just another voice. I hope bards get a dps boost, but you're overselling things here. They should get one just because it would be healthy for the game. Every class should be fun to play, and classes with excessive group benefits like bards should have reasonably high value when in smaller groups as well. There should be balance to it, sure. But there's a lot of room here to make bards better dps without trampling over rogues etc.. I hope the bards I know get a dps increase that is reasonable and have a lot of fun with it.
Your post makes it sound like dps is the only thing that makes classes fun to play. If dps is fun for you, play a class that does dps. Classes should be distinct and the play style of each should be fun for different people. Variety allowing people to find a fun niche. Making all the classes nearly identical with just different named abilities that all do the same thing and just require button mashing is ultimately a boring game. That said, bard dps is a joke. They should get a boost (and not from dots). But the boost should not be premised on "fun", but on balance.
Did you try reading the entire post, because it directly conflicts what you're trying to say here. Pulling ability is important, so you're trying to disagree with me and then in the process you're 100% agreeing with me. Everyone's a critic. But they all want bards to get a dps boost.
Not compared to an enchanter. Not compared to a bard. Not compared to a ranger. Not compared to a monk. Not compared to a rogue. Not compared to a shadowknight. Not compared to a necromancer. If the mobs can be pacified a cleric or paladin will absolutely run circles around you. If it's hard pulling at all, and you have a beastlord as your puller, get a real puller and watch your group actually be fun. I've done some pulls that I was really proud of on a beastlord, but when I look at them and see how I could have done them on ANY of the above listed classes much faster, without having to remain fd while the fight goes on completely ruining my dps, and with less risk.. I can't agree with your position. I remember one time in Crypt I tried to pull a 6 spawn because I had to for a quest. I got it great with me and a friend for the first mob, and then during the second pull fd failed. Because it does that. This is just one example, but that's ALL we get. I had to gate out or kill my friend because I knew he was half afk. So I gyrospired out and then ran back. THAT was the price for just a failed fd and it could have been full on death of the group. That was the best possible outcome. A rogue can pull that whole thing 99% of the time in a matter of seconds. If it fails, they have a fade to pop off. They have resorts they can go to to deal with issues. Take that logic and apply it towards any other "pulling" class. Beastlord pulling is basically the same thing as praying. Play a real pulling class and then your tone will change if you're good.
Pulling is horrifically overrated (asides from specific instances that are likely not intended) especially given what you said above. Bard, Enchanter, Ranger, Monk, Rogue, SKs, Necro, and every other class can pull and/or CC in some fashion. Or you just have the tank pull and kill however many mobs come which is pretty much what everyone does nowadays. Who does singles in a group setting? It's a waste of time when you can kill 2, 3, or 4 (or more) at once with the same effort and it is more "fun".
You guys are like the wildebeests in the lion king. Jesus Christ. So devs for the record bards want you to ruin all pulling ability that they have for dps.
Pulling is not really relevant these days unless there's like 20 mobs in 1 room and you only need 4. No one is specifically actively looking for a "puller" in eok for groups, you just fill the group up with a real tank and dps and mow mobs down. Lure of the siren song already got nerfed and that was literally our bread and butter AA for keeping mobs together to AE mez since we get a crappy pbae mezz. Our mez takes a fairly long time to cast and the reuse time is even worse, a monk is more efficient at pulling with his targetted AE mez disc and distant strike. I understand beastlords suck at pulling as I played one, but their pet can offtank a mob or 2 fine while your beast tanks another with PS and other defensive aa clicks.
pulling is such a poor argument anymore.. i could not tell you how many times i have been in groups where they said just bring mobs rather than try and do one at a time. No body wants to cherry pick anymore. years ago i guess cherry picking was a cool thing. now people just mow stuff down. and with "Chase" loot people prefer just killing in mass cause that prize is much greater than worrying about regular group named. furthermore, i have been in groups where they have told me to not even mez stuff.. thats cause they just AE blasting everything down. maybe pulling and CC is important to low AA and poor group gear players but for raid geared talent pulling & CC is wasted.. and to make matters worse pulling and CC is completely useless for bards during raids. I dont even think there is 1 event in EoK were bard is needed to CC or pull. Only 1 event in TBM sometimes required bard CC support. Pulling on raids is no longer done by bards but by the tanks as bards are so weak that they just die pulling and on top of that it is easier for tanks to pull and get agro on their pulls vs trying to get agro on stuff that is coming in from another person.
With the huge boost for shaman DPS... <edit leet shaman dps numbers> Ya, I'd say bards can get a boost in DPS, lol.
I'm just a guy posting on a message board dude. I'm sharing my experience with you in regard to pulling because it's the experience that I had. Even in the modern game, I find that even though pulling isn't important 24/7 that when it is important, it becomes really, really important. I'm not trying to justify your class's position just on pulling, but I think sometimes it helps to put things into perspective, and you're undervaluing it to be frank. I hear these arguments like "well someone else can do it" well what happens when no one else is able to in the group you're in, or when that class is badly equipped and you blow time on it? The basis of this argument is "I'll always have exactly what I need in a group", and that basis defeats itself. Why care about bard dps when you can just group with 3 berserkers a shaman and a warrior right? Somehow that is an absurd assumption but pulling never matters ever. Okay.... I think you just need to take a break from the class man. Make whatever class you think is going to be great, play that class, find out it isn't everything you'd dreamed it would be or maybe it is, and then be happy or become more jaded and knowledgable. Try a beastlord if you think they're great. I bet you'll love it for a few months and then a few issues will sink in and you'll still like it but you'll have a fuller view. With that said, as I've said in almost every post even though I'm some villain on this thread, I hope bards get a bit of a dps boost. If a bit isn't enough and you think I should be screaming that bards don't beat berserkers in dps, then I'm not sorry. I've been a proponent here for what I think is healthy for the game.
I didn't claim it had been shared, I simply made a point of saying that the boost they deserve (granted, my opinion) is close to double their current output.
That would be about right IMO.. sadly even such extreme increase as doubling would only bring bards to where they should be. you would be lucky to see a 20% bump in the next year.. Doubling Bard DPS would put them topping out @ (best case) still well below pure dps classes (1/3) and below other well played hybrids. 400k dps in a fight <60 seconds. <300k ~120sec 200k > 180s 100-150k > 3m+
No, octuple it! And they need an overselos made that allows them to control how much faster than selos they are going with the mouse wheel when moving forwards. Any mobs they run into while going at least 2x selos just die outright. Can we make it so that if a bard is even in a raid, instead of doing the raid they all just watch John Wick and then are awarded loot at the end of the movie? How do you propose that they double the dps? crits? a new ability? stronger base damage? better weapons? Might as well move into that area, where something interesting might happen.
Don't bards currently do something similar, only sometimes the waits are longer before collecting loot?
