Bans, Boxers, 3rd party programs, and EQ

I am always suspect when someone tosses around absolutes.

dont.get.too.excited.

In other words, we've been made out and we're trying to find ways to make the software more evasive. We're also going to make it open source just incase Darkpaw shuts us down (legal challenge).

But here's a revolutionary idea: uninstall the software.

Thanks for the inside information. We need more people to post these screens. I'd like to see the talking points cheat sheet: it probably mirrors every 'New Member' and pro-cheat spiel to the point. Please use a VPN to take screens.

Seems like a 'New Member' knows an awful lot about these places.

You need not go anywhere sketchy.

That software went open source a while ago, and was talked about here on the forums. Reading completeness and comprehension FTW as always.

It was mentioned back then, with the source available for anyone to download, you would see a rise in cheating, as anyone can modify it to do all kinds of cheating things. And we see it is indeed becoming an issue.

your imagination is one thing, and the reality something else

Make what distinction? The fact that they don't jump to a ban for every offense and that they typically start with suspensions of increasing length?

This screen is pointless, basically says
Someone who doesn't use bazaar was affected
Someone who did use bazaar was affected
This same kind of stuff over again, which means anyone can be in the suspension.

Like I said before, if you "exploit", yes its used vague.
You will get suspended or banned.Exploit can be in many forms like, AFK with a merc come back 2 days later with bags full of loot. AFK foraging/fishing come back later with 300+ fish/foraged items, this is done by software because the macro only allows for 5 actions, you can't catch 300+ fish/foraged items afk without exploiting.

That list of
He's played recently and got suspended
He's has played for a long time and got suspended
What does this have to do with anything? They suppose to play favoritism? You exploit you exploit. Suspension/Ban.
This doesn't say anything, you don't know the fine details like, what triggered the suspension.

Grind instances, not grind. This just shows EQ team is actively looking for exploiters because the cheaters are not seen and reported by anyone since they hiding in instance doing the exploit. Kudos to EQ team stepping up there progress against cheaters.

You don't need 3rd party software to exploit, so of course everyone can be affected. Using a drone or something to press the keyboard key continuously is not using 3rd party software, but your exploiting the game still just a different method.

What wasn't disallowed until the recent change?

Exactly.

When you spout about misinformation without being complete or correct in your initial assertion, YOU ARE PART OF THE MISINFORMATION PROBLEM.

Clear now?

Key repeating, as you know from the Piestro quote. 2011 to current changes (What Constitutes As Cheating) auto fishing was allowed.

I think they have been pretty clear on AFK and taking action when you are not at the keyboard.

A pretty easy way to initially spot accounts which should be evaluated for cheating is to look at those which receive key/mouse input when they are not the foreground window. That wouldn't be enough to say they are cheating for sure, but I would guess that pretty much all cheating accounts are actively responding to fake input while they are a background window. Use that criteria for a first pass of which accounts should be looked at more closely.

I think it would probably be good in the long run for EQ to ban any input or action on a background window. If people really want to box, they would have to do it with alt-tab. It's a clear policy and would be easy to understand and enforce. Yes, this would make things like ISB prohibited, but hopefully this would mean they would make changes to the game so that boxing wasn't needed. Find ways that people can play a single account rather than having to have 2, 3, 6, 12 accounts running in the background.

This is mostly correct.

But keep in mind, programmable keyboards and mice can be made to do automation over multiple windows while EQ is always in the foreground.

I do support the banning of accounts running background input capable apps. But I'm not sure that catches all software either, some software and even hardware (dongels) are available that don't 'identify' themselves as input devices.

It's a great first step. But we should keep in mind there is absolutely no way they can ever detect and take action on every way to 'cheat'.

To me the only important part of the screen is the fact that there is direct and open communication between DBG and "the bad guys" regarding how the software functions and what needs to change to be within the "rules". It seems like there is no real push to completely shut down the amount of botting/automation or try to step up the punishments. If anything, it says the complete opposite

Following that was a statement about them putting out a new script for boxing (not botting).

I think both of those are pretty important to be aware of.


Edit: I have no dog in the fight. I'd say about 25% of my guild/friend list uses automation for their box crew. I have very rarely, if ever, been negatively impacted by these armies of robots that sweep through zones causing mayhem and chaos. On the other hand it would be nice to sell the 30-50 odd stacks of tradeskill items for a reasonable price lol or have the price of krono not get massively inflated.

This should be something that the EQ client itself can check. In the code where it gets keyboard/mouse input, it can also check that it is the foreground window at that time. So if I'm running 3 EQ windows, only one will be the Windows foreground window. If the other two get key/mouse input, they can see that they are not foreground windows and they'll know they're being fed input from some program/device rather than an actual person. Certainly the foreground window can be fed key/mouse input from devices, but the background window check on input should be simple for the EQ client to do without having to scan for programs or input devices.

Again I agree, and mostly correct.

If alt-tab is allowed for a human to hit on the keyboard, a programmable device can alt-tab to the next window. The foreground EQ window is the only one receiving any input.

I believe your stated change would catch more than the earlier construction of the idea. But still fails to catch all cases.

Maybe, I'm not certain of this, just theorizing.

I think you need to be more specific as you have key repeating to repeat an action such as fishing while you are at the keyboard and while you are afk. As far as I am aware it is still legal to use it if you are at the keyboard on that account.

Exactly what? You keep saying this expecting me to understand what you are saying without going into detail with what you are trying to say. Just because they don't jump straight to a ban doesn't mean you can claim they are not being clear about the rules.

AFK is always cheating.

Auto Fishing is not AFK. I have always stipulated that, you must be behind the keyboard or it's cheating.

They have now changed the rules to where it's cheating even when you ARE at the keyboard.

We are all aware you are trying to conflate key repeating with AFK, we all see what you're doing.