9-12-17 test patch notes = more massive nerfs?!

To be fair, if he raids in 3 top tier guilds, he is 'likely' to be able to recognize top tier bl/rng/zerk vs. top tier pal aggro.

Some servers top guilds can be devoid of a top tier <insert class here> and then many will think 'x' player is the apex standard of <insert class here>, when in fact they may be far from it.

Someone that raids in one family guild is much less likely to have any kind of realistic world view, so to speak.

But of course #not all.

I don't think I've ever seen any of our pallys loose aggro on a raid. Not saying they don't have to work harder, but they get it done. That being said, I didn't see any reason to nerf the pally version of Harmonious, it was fine.

Cleric nerfs are also rarely a good idea. Worst case maybe you put QA and VP on the same timer, but the drain is way overkill.

MY guild has long "finished" EoK, even though none of the guilds on my server race the lockout timers and therefore alone have no "chance" to be among the top5 serverwide.
That i am personally in a quite "comfortable" situation thought doesn't mean that i "forgot" how we got there, nor that there are some still trying to progress and that their progress is ever made harder/unlikely as we go on.
Neither have i forgotten my time as a guild- and raidleader in what you might call a "casual" guild/alliance back in the days.
If you take a look at the epeen site, they even list some changes and mark the guilds that have beaten events shortly after a change blue.
Look at the comment that pops up and you see that they have repeatedly changed events to make them harder.
The nerfs discussed here hit them far harder than either you or me and are simply bad if only for that.


You say you have no clue what angers me?
The attitude of "elitism" that permeates your post(s), based on nothing more than your guild-association.
We all can and most likely will adapt to any changes thrown at us, even the base-reuse flash until they deign to fix them, sure.
But simply because a guild hasn't "beaten" EoK yet does not make them worse players.
Nor is anyone necessarily doing something "wrong" when mobs last longer than 20s.
They're doing it differently, perhaps even suboptimally - but they work with that they've got.
Looking down on them simply because they're not in a top5 guild or even in a top15 is simply stupid imo, and exactly what you're doing.


Now, my final on PAL agro:
I too play all three types of tanks, though only my WAR on raids.
i play WITH PALs on raids though of course.
And i know i can rely on them to tank what they're assigned.
On some events (Inny, Arx, Wither) they tank the bosses alongside us and have no issue with agro whatsoever.
I see DPS taking agro too, but in MY book that is the DPS's fault and not necessarily the tank's and especially in the first 5 to 10 seconds you mention.
But what i see most of the time is PALs that keep the agro of at least "their" mob with *seemingly* ease.
So yes they might have a harder time keeping it - i can't comment on that from first-hand experience other than each of three classes keeps agro quite differently, and on some events/mobs better than others.
But as was said, they CAN.
And that's what counts, at least in my book.

Fintank, a couple of quick things. I respect your modesty. I am not wired nor would I ever want to be that way though . I expect myself to be Elite-God tier status everytime I log in with the time I've invested(and by no coincidence, I am). All of my closest friends/spouse whom I've played multiple games at the highest level with I expect the same of(no coincidence, they are). FYI; the "awesome" Paladin that was being referred to is also a God tier player, one of best in all of EQ, happens to be on a bad server(yes, I realize good players are in lower tier guilds). I raid with family guilds, pickup raids, mid tier every now and then. It isn't really my cup of tea though as the "average" player on those raids aren't about playing the game in the same manner I am. That doesn't equate to I don't like them or look down on them. It equates to I don't expect them to have a realistic view on class capabilities as a whole and I'm very unlikely to be taking their opinion seriously. As I stated, Paladins are the most disadvantaged of the three tanks in terms of aggro.

I'm triggered. Personal pet peeve of mine. In modern day EQ, it's on the tanks to hold aggro from second 0, it's not on the DPS to hold back (and waste time) waiting for a bad tank to spool up.

*shrug*
In most situations i agree.
But not in all.

*Except if the tank is a Paladin, in which case a 30 minute buffer is needed to build up enough agro.

Thanks. I'm now saving $45 a month.

Challenge accepted!

i demand picture proof or dident happen symbius

You should all testcopy and have your battles during Saturday's test raid.

Don't lie, happens all the time...right before the rez.

Played this game for ten years and quit my Necro as my main due to the Nerfs that Sony constantly did to my class. Started back after being away for 3 years as a warrior and really enjoyed the game play. Figured I would give daybreak a chance. Now I see Daybreak doing the same thing Sony Did. I guess I will spend my money on a different newer game that doesn't take away earned abilities and make my game play less enjoyable for the sake of balancing. I understand the need to tweak things that are new and not what they were meant to be but lets be serious a new expansion is coming out. Now is not the time to tweak the previous expansion; it was before or shortly after release - not right before the next one. Cancelling my auto-pay on my three accounts best wishes to all.

Xahle is the 3rd player from my guild to leave or state he is leaving the game after the September patch for a total of at least 9 accounts. I'm sure other guilds are seeing members leave the game. Changing things that players have been doing all year is not the way to keep them. These are good players and we hate to loose them. I ask Daybreak to relook at the patch and consider reversing it.

Haven't heard of anyone leaving, your guild must be special. Why are they stating they're leaving because the huge nerf hasn't made anything harder.

My guild hasn't lost anyone. In fact, our attendance is back to where it was in May before the summer dip and applications are up. Haven't noticed any real differences on raids either. Tanks still hold aggro just fine, tanks aren't dying, dps still getting it done.

Nerfs suck. They need to tune in beta and shortly after release (which means actually listening to feedback). Not let things fester. Odd AA consolidations are a pure mystery. Yet, the actual impacts have been minimal. The game goes on. Let's hope they put out a decent expansion. That's what will actually get people quitting if they mess it up.

The most effect i have felt is the change to aggro mechanism. Dots extremely high aggro compared to earlier lovering the dps of caster of dots. Which esp effects alliance which is too high.

Oh, hasn't it?
You're not serious or not talking about tanking, are you?
And that's only what i am directly affected by...

In itself i doubt that the nerf, as encompassing and hurting as it is, is reason to quit.
But added into the mix of issues it's very much a reason to quit.
As i said:
The stones add up...

Hasbro toy company, should put the devs of every major mmorpg on the payroll, for all the free advertising they generate for the company...or on commission at least.

We are a mid level guild, and I'd say right now the QA/VP nerf is hurting us in the vault. On our server 3 of the 4 guilds raiding current content didn't beat the vault until late August/early September. Not sure why they felt they had to nerf Clerics now.