9-12-17 test patch notes = more massive nerfs?!

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Maedhros, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Phrovo1 Augur

    woo 70k aggro up front if they can hit all of them at the same time. how much is generated in 30 seconds? 1 minute? how much do you think burning dps generates?
  2. Questoften32 Augur

    Nerf 22:

    Berserkers:
    Frenzy damage is up 200% but is now a passive verbal shout, that only triggers in the presence of an ex wife, whose been, metaphorically speaking, that is: given the axe.
  3. sojero One hit wonder

    What lives for 30 seconds? one minute? if it does, your doing something else wrong :)
  4. Phrovo1 Augur

    don't care about group, talking about raids
  5. Warpeace Augur

    Its what he does and uses half truths. Yes his poor math is correct when playing the 1+1=2 game but how long does it take to get all those spells cast vs mob time to death and what a Warrior or SK can drop in what 1-2 sec?
  6. sojero One hit wonder

    I was too :) who has time for grouping!
    Phrovo1 likes this.
  7. Bigstomp Augur

    Are you sure? Isn't one a worn effect and one a buff so they would stack? (ie: worn haste and buff haste)
  8. Gohten New Member

    Definitely stack.
    gotwar likes this.
  9. fransisco Augur

    I apologize.
    As I mentioned, we are discussing a post only partially remembered.

    In my mind, I conflated you with Xanothol.
    I'd edit the previous post if I could, but its been 5 minutes. Sorry!
  10. MelediWeaver Journeyman

    So discovered last night mana is going to be a big issue... not being able to do QM on yourself.. and losing mana if you do on others. Means as long as you don't die you are okay. In many raids we die.

    Going back to purchasing the mana glyph, rationing staunch for critical events... and will be more critical on divine rez. Mod rods are no longer a would be nice if I had one item. Reminded myself however last raid that there are a number of healing clicky things I can do as well.. beyond the mansi branch I have a few things that heal.

    Still a pain when the only change they seem to make to clerics is to remove an AA I used (Smite the Wicked and no.. getting more levels of Turn Undead is not a good substitute), and mucking up mana regen.

    There are so many things that require a real bug fix (anchors anyone?). I continue to be very puzzled about the need to "rebalance" ....is it a case of lets distract people from the old problems by making new ones?
    Maedhros likes this.
  11. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    I haven't seen any of this.
    It's not "too easy" why i personally do not use it.
    But rather (as i said before) because in a GROUP setting i do not need it and in raid setting it made agro shaky.
    i.e. farther into the fight, if we used harmonious, mobs behaved as if they'd blur.
    If we didn't it was ok.
    Guess that is one of the reasons why they reduced the hate from harmonious really:
    So we're not exceeding the realm of the variable that holds the agro "as quickly" anymore and that it become viable in a "normal" raid event again...
  12. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    (talking about raid stuff)
    Pal, if you are talking like this for raid events i wonder just WHAT it is you raid.

    Perhaps you rare to remember the EoK T3 events and Vault / Queen from T2.
    In each of these events you have mobs that some (not all of course) have to tank for a bit longer, even if we're just talking "adds"
    And i haven't timed any of the later Alchemists from T2.1 (when burns have been spent), but they're mostly stunned anyways.
  13. Xanathol Augur

    Just because you don't like the truth (or math) doesn't change it.
  14. Warpeace Augur



    There's the other one.

    Yes over time Paladin can put that amount of agro out, but its being misrepresented how long it takes to actually produce that amount.
  15. sojero One hit wonder


    I ain't your pal, friend!

    I don't think you understand the way it works on high dps guilds.

    We are also talking about first assist on engage. That is the only time it matters, if you are tanking the 3rd mob out of 3 and you have had the full minute to agro, and you lose it, delete your char and do your raid a favor!.

    Queen and vault events those adds do not last more than 20 seconds each and if they do you are hurting your raid force even more, there are just a bunch of them.

    T3 event 1, we have one group that kites frosts till the shields drop, agro isn't an issue at all in that situation. The flames are all tanked where they are and a pal is one of our tanks that grabs one. You also have time to build up agro on it while they get reaper down enough to move, so no, no agro issues there at all. We have sk or pal grab the beetles, and there isnt really any agro issues on those.

    Drakes on T3 event 2 (ancient dragon) no they should not last more than 30 seconds each once dps is on them.

    T3 event 3, atrebe, again adds should last any time at all once dps is on them. You may have to tank them for longer, but that doesn't really have much to do with what we are talking about.

    Through all these events, we run with 1 to 3 pal. 1 of our pal is amazing and never has any agro issues, ever. The other 2 are ok, and can have agro issues, but its play style/player , not a limitation of the class.

    An example is when the timed respawns on queen happen. I am in the captain tank group as a backup, and help backup tank the adds, so when the timed respawns happen we have a pal that grabs them, the awesome one. I cast a terror on it when it spawns, he casts at the same time and I am only at 30% of his hate. by the time my GCD is done and i cast the second terror i am still at 40% or less, and no our dps dont pull agro from him, pretty much ever.

    If you need to, you rotate tanks to be the first on ma target agro so that they have more of their longer cooldown abilities up if it is needed, but i don't really think it is needed. communication and routine is key.
  16. Jubura New Member

    Thank you for this patch. It has pushed me to finally cancel the recurring payments of those alt accounts. I'll keep one around for the new expansion but not much hope seening the handling of this patch and teh AB server. /out
  17. Seldom Augur

    Lol, I love the people in mid tier guilds that claim they're in high end ones. When you're around dps that actually know how to play, Paladins are the most disadvantaged aggro wise of three tanks. Even after the recent nerfs, there's still a nice gap
  18. Zhaunil_AB Augur

    And i don't think you quite understand how it works in the "real" world.
    You know, outside of the bubble of the few guilds that get X-Server Apps from all over the US.

    I wasn't posting about agro issues, but specifically on your "if you are tanking longer than 20s you are doing something wrong" crap.
    There's a reason for us not being in the top5 serverwide - besides that we're not doing events as soon as lockout's are over, certainly.
    Looking at some guild's rosters it is clear that our DPS isn't exactly "on par" with them, in total.
    On an individual level though, very much so.
    But still, you need to get off your high horse and see the whole picture!

    And when i speak of Vault for example, our approach might be quite different from yours, even suboptimal perhaps.
    But we didn't have to work on that event for so long, and it's not still THE stopping point for guilds lower than us over nothing.
    WE had and have to tank multiples in P1 - Mobs DEFINITELY last longer than 20secs.
    Simply because there's so many of them.

    On Drakes you are right, they SHOULD not last long, but well.. they do sometimes.
    and 20s are gone sooo fast..

    It may not have been the point you were trying to make perhaps, but it was EXACTLY what you were talking about when you gave that crap about "when you tank for longer than 20s, you are doing something wrong".

    As i said, i am NOT saying that we or our knights have an agro problem, i think they don't.
    In that, we seem to agree.
    But some people clearly have an attitude problem, and such "careless" words anger me.
    Much like this one:
    I dunno whom you are referring to or what your personal definition of the "tiers" is.
    But yes, our DPS *does* know how to play - we just might have not enough of the "right" classes compared to some other guilds.
    And even though there's some distance with regards to agro capabilities on paper, depending what's used:
    only those of our PALs with low RA have any issue with agro at all.
    Whether that's because "PAL agro sucks" or simply because
    is anyone's guess.
    I agree with the quoted sentiment however.
  19. Seldom Augur

    Zhaunil, I have no clue why you're claiming my post has "angered" you after stating you have no idea what I'm even referencing. Regardless, you have now ANGERED me, grrrr(sarcasm FYI). In all seriousness, I have no clue whom you are or what guild you're in. Taking a quick glance at your posts, it appears you're guild is struggling in EoK. I don't consider you high end nor mid tier. I'd place that at family guild status personally. I don't care if you're Paladins can hold aggro over your family tier level dpsers. Just like you apparently don't care about my rank of tiers or me stating Paladins are the most disadvantaged aggro wise of the three tanks. I myself play all three of the tank classes in three different high end guilds at an elite level. I don't need a "paper" test to tell me where aggro stands nor do I need "anyones guess", much less folks in mid/family guilds. Thanks though and good luck making it through rest of EoK ;)
  20. Fintank Augur



    This is truly amazing. I'm guessing you haven't raided with players in these guilds deemed as mid-tier and family-tier. As someone who's played in every tier I can tell you how wrong you are. Just because a guild is lower on the rankings or hasn't finished the expansion doesn't mean they don't have amazing players. It simply means they have less than you, and potentially leadership problems that don't help. I've played with people in family guilds that rival ROI's top DPSers and tanks, they just prefer to stay due to friends, raid times, scheduling etc. Rankings are all about your guild's median of play, 5 astounding people can't carry 51 average/below average players all the way through an expansion sometimes. This doesn't mean that everyone in that guild is deemed as an average or below average player even though the guild itself is labeled as such. EVERY guild has some average or below average players.

    So if this person has an amazing Paladin that can keep agro off an amazing Ranger, Beastlord, Berserker etc. Basically whatever they may have that performs at the top level in this game, then their arguments are completely valid. I personally can keep agro off of the high caliber DPS in my guild on my Paladin alt. Now it's true that out of the 3 tanks, Paladins have it a lot more rough and it takes more work. Are they unable to perform their role because of this? Absolutely not. Does it suck butts that the other 2 tanks keep getting great additions through the expansions and Paladins get the short end of the stick? Yes. I do love your declaration of skill though. Just because you play all 3 tanks in 3 different guilds that are deemed *elite* does not mean you are automatically elite. Now I don't know you or how you play, you may very well be the best thing since sliced bread at tanks and I'm just an . It's just very tiresome reading other people's arguments that have a basis of "Hey I'm 1/54th of a raid team that beat raids (First-Fifth), this means I'm literally the best I can possibly be at my class."
    Sheex, Sindaiann, kizant and 2 others like this.