3rd party programs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Zarakii, Oct 1, 2015.

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  1. Motherlee Augur

    And the man who created the program with the number 2 in its name worked for Microsoft. What's your point, Wizdons?
  2. Tatanka Augur

    I don't think that's a safe assumption at all. When the >bad< program came out (before ISB was available), it allowed you to box effectively. Of course, it also allowed you to cheat (not that you had to, but it allowed it, and many people did, though not everyone who used it). Then ISB came out, and it allowed you to box effectively, was easier to use, and didn't have hooks into the code, so didn't let you cheat. At that point, I think most boxers made the move to ISB.

    Of those that didn't make the move to ISB, I assume the main reason is because they want to do things that are against the EULA, with the main issue there being automation.

    Tat
    Motherlee and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  3. moogs Augur

    I box without ISB and the main reason is because I am effective without ISB and therefore have no need to use 3rd party software, not because I want to do things which are against the EULA.
  4. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    To be honest there was a healthy boxer population before ISB ever showed up. If you are boxing six or fewer toons I see no need for it. Tried it for a month didn't like it. To be honest I think people would adapt. I was able to six box TDS progression just takes a bit of thought when doing it. But lets face it if they cant stop the M and Q guys and have to ask them nicely not to interfere on their new progression server then I dont think ISB folks have to worry. I would just like to know what deal Daybreak made with them to protect their new progression cash cow.
  5. Wizdons Augur


    You will never know lol. maybe some perma bans removed? maybe some cash? maybe in game stuff? maybe lifetime all access?
  6. rune00 Augur

    That's ridiculous. I can assure you there was no offering of any deals whatsoever from DBG.
    DBG (Holly, who was nice to grant a meeting) was contacted by the m q 2 dev who offered to disable m q 2 for the no box server no strings attached.

    I know m q 2 has been demonized here for years unchallenged, but you need to wake up and smell the coffee, those guys are just nerds that wants more features for eq. I know not every m q 2 feature is "awesome" but there is a long list of features that are and many, many of them where so good that they eventually made their way into the game over the years... Bandolier, melody , autofire, useitem and xtargets just to name a few...
    Silv and Reht like this.
  7. Wizdons Augur

    i never saw news to this. at least you speak as though this is a fact that is common knowledge.

    Do these places not run at a fee? i would have to think something would have to offset the loss they they will surly have for not turning it on in these new servers. What benefit would it be for those folks to just comply with this? did DBG threaten to shut them down or else?

    From the little news i have found is basically DBG has worked some sort of deal so they will simple disable the software on this particular server. DBG has not said they will be changing anything to actually make sure no one makes a work around and blocking it 100%.

    Nobody on the outside im sure knows for sure the real story.
  8. rune00 Augur

    The one site where the program is distributed does not require any fees.
    The sites that are requiring a membership will not bypass the mainsites disabling since they respect eqmules stance on this matter.

    The real story as well as the reasoning behind this has been posted both by eqmule as well as holly who talked about the meeting in the eq2 General chat the day after it took place and then later on twitch.tv
    Just because you haven't seen it "on the outside" it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's out there and if you look for it you will find very detailed information.

    Anyway exactly what I stated is true.
  9. mackal Augur


    eqmule also didn't mention anything besides going on vacation until Holly was talking about it on the TLE EQ2 server general chat.
  10. segap Augur


    Part of playing a game is to learn to excel within the limitations of that game. By adding features, you're bypassing limitations that may exist as part of the designed game play.

    All the examples you give are things that made play easier. Xtarget is probably my least favorite of them. Yes, I use the extended target window and occasionally macro xtargets. It's very useful. But I think it removed immersion and the need to pay attention to your surroundings. I probably spend more time staring at it then I do watching the game. A lot of the changes have made our screens become filled with button bars and shrunk the view of the environment we're playing in.
  11. Motherlee Augur

    If you want "them" to leave the no-boxing server alone, give "them" their own playground, all hacks allowed server. No customer support. As long as they're not lagging up our servers or crashing theirs, let them have at it.
  12. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    And you can't say various features would not have shown up anyway. I don't think they can all be attirbuted to . It also does not take much research to see that some site make larges amounts of money off subscriptions to their services.

    Plus the fact is a lot of features were put there for the purposes of cheating not to make EQ more cool. So I don't buy the BS that it was just a desire to make EQ better or whether that even had anything to do with it. Pretend it was a noble concern by a bunch of nerds but in reality it was a bunch of nerds who wanted to be able to cheat.
    frankie78227 likes this.
  13. frankie78227 Augur

    Never understood why SoE didn't just nix all the 3rd party program sites selling their "services" and profiting off EQ. It seems like they should have sued said companies.
    Corwyhn Lionheart likes this.
  14. rune00 Augur

    Bunch of hateful bull, but it fits your agenda so you continue spewing it.
    Here are some facts:
    1. The eq devs agree that m q has some "not so awesome" features in it.
    2. The only 2 they said they didn't like was zone wide targeting of mobs and mobs on the map.
    Now if you are of a different opinion it doesn't align with theirs, and I certainly wouldn't call that: "the fact is a lot of ** features"
    3. The fact remains, almost down to the assembly level that many unique m q 2 features was adopted by the eq devs over the years. I agree with you that, yes, we don't know if that was to remove the need for players to use a third party tool, or if it was simply because they actually thought up those features from scratch and just added them, but cmon... get your head out of the sand... it just isn't reasonable that almost every "awesome" feature from m q 2 has eventually made its way into the game and it had nothing at all to do with a third party tool offering these features to its users while the non third party tool users did not have the same features available to them...
    Anyway all of that was discussed at their meeting with eqmule. (meeting documented on another site.)

    Don't come back with a reply about warp, ghostkilling and other stuff that has nothing to do with m q Those are hacks by users abusing it to load their cheat plugins and therefor that argument is not valid, the m q 2 devs have NEVER and will NEVER distribute or promote any plugins besides core.

    You need to see m q for what it is today and judge it from what those guys are trying to accomplish now, not go on and on about shiz that happened several years ago.

    Now we have this guy (eqmule) that clearly is trying to disable this tool on the new server, even reaches out to dbg to open a discussion and are willing to help in any reasonable way he can and you have the audacity to crap on that?

    I understand your anger, "m q 2 has ruined eq, blah blah", just know that there are just as many people if not more that say they would have stopped playing eq a long time ago if it wasn't for third party tools offering them features that didn't exist yet in the client.

    I don't know what the future holds for eq, elidroth just quit, the team only has like 5-6 people left now...
    What if this was the last hail mary expansion?
    What if all the servers are closed?
    you are only gonna have servers left.
    And guess what... if(when) that day comes, with no active development done for eq, the only new features you will get will be those coming from third party developers... Maybe you will personally stop playing if that happens, I have no idea, but many others will continue and the only new features added will come from... yeah u guessed it... third party developers... so be nice to those guys... you might depend on them one day...
    .
    Motherlee likes this.
  15. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    LOL its not hateful I an just calling banana split when I see it. was never about adding neat features that eq should have. If they had wanted to do that they would have simply sent their code to SOE or Daybeak. Obviously you are a Monkey Qrack user and so you defend it or do you have a server you want them to leave along so are willing to put a spin on things for them?

    So go ahead and make up all sorts of reasons for it. Monkey Qrack was developed for the purpose of giving people who use it advantages in the game they shouldn't have. That is cheating. Put whatever spin you want on it. And in case you didn't know EQ is already on emulators and is already being modified so Monkey Qrack isn't needed for that either.

    Definitely no anger though or hate. I honestly don't waste those emotions on Monkey Qrack. Disdain sure, disgust sure. Hate? Nah Monkey Qrack isn't worth that much energy. I just think it is funny you are trying to put a banana split spin on this software. I get why Daybreak is doing it they want something from Monkey Qrack. But I get it when you really have no argument attack the poster :)

    We won't even begin to discuss how the product was released open source or how it was actually written so all the other hacks were relatively easy to add because that would be too factual.
    Khat_Nip likes this.
  16. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    Agreed though I am not that well versed in business law. My suspicion is that it is too expensive a proposition and that they are not likely to get much money back.

    One company probably doesn't have the cash to chase after everyone legally.
  17. Tornicade_IV Augur

    noone complained about gameparse which was advertised in the forums and featured overlay trigger texts

    as far as programs that allow everyone to be a ranger, insta warp. zonewide mob mapping and combat enhancers like insta kill.
    these were essenyially dev tools that were hacked.
    although live monitoring wasnt viable for bandwith reasons. Devs seemed to have always had the ability to check the logs and indetify use of these functions on an individual basis. it was only recently they started modifying logs and audtiing them to detect use on a large scale basis.

    ill put mule farming in this category of things that game runners could of minimized the impact of but chose not to until it was economically beneficial for them to do so (Free to play meant there needed to be incentives to subscribe and ensuring FTP restrictions were enforceable was essential to that model).

    These third party programs setting up their programs not to work on certain servers may not prevent exploiting or circumventing the server rules but it will reduce it by scale of players who do and make it easier from an enforcement standpoint.

    I have far less issues with programs that read information sent by the server than those that bypass and manipulate programming.I am sure the Devs make that distinction too,
  18. rune00 Augur

    Its fine Corwyhn, we can have different oppinions on this, i have presented my view of things and you have presented yours.
    Ill just answer your questions for completetion amd as a curtesy:

    1. M q code is shared with dbg every time there is a new release, it's open source, you know this, so don't be ridiculous dbg can implement it at any point the like. (and they have on multiple occasions added said features)

    2. Multiple m q devs has in fact applied for jobs with soe to try to get to code for them instead, none has been hired as far as I know, they did have one guy there at a point ( still do?) but he was a seq dev.

    3. No I don't run an server.

    4. People who run an server can modify the server side features only, they cannot add client features. In the cases where an server operator needs client modification, guess what... They go to the m q devs...

    Anyway it feels like you are not gonna believe anything I say no matter how logical it is or even if I backup my claims with actual quotes and links from devs and whatnot so I'm not gonna waste time on it.

    I have presented my view, I'll let the post readers decide for themselves which one of us who is cherry picking and which one of us that is trying to put a spin on things.
  19. Corwyhn Lionheart Augur

    1) I was talking about sharing the code exclusively with them and NOT releasing it to the public. I believe they run into legal issues just grabbing stuff released to the public. So no I am not being silly :)

    2) I guess they felt they didnt need them or perhaps hiring guys and giving them inside access to EQ when their claim to fame was writing cheat code made them pause. That is sort of a reasonable thing don't you agree?

    3) do you use Monkey Qrack?

    4) those same people can write their own code too just like the Monkey Qrack peeps.

    And yeah when you characterized my post as angry etc it because clear we might not see eye to eye on anything.
  20. rune00 Augur

    I often notice when someone is losing a debate and run out of arguments they resort to name calling and derogatory statements...
    Keep calling m q monkey qrack if you like, but the readers here are going to see through your failed attempt at ridicule.
    1. There has been several code snippets shared over the years in private as well.

    2. I don't object to your guess, it sounds reasonable enough, but why then would they hire a seq dev?
    Anyway it doesn't really matter to me what their reasons might have been. I just tried to illustrate that's it's not for lack of trying that the third party tool developers had to continue on as free lancers...

    3. I do not use monkey qrack, whatever that is :) oh you mean m q? Well it's irrelevant if I use it or not there are plenty of servers where it's allowed and even encouraged so I could always say ha that's where I'm playing... Anyway it doesn't matter if I use it or not, I support third party tool features that are good and I don't really care about a specific tool as long as it does the job, take Gina for example, it has some nice features that I use but I could just as easily get the exact same features using m q...

    4. The only server dev I know of that has modified a client successfully is Secrets, and that was a client for the eqmac server, you seem to think any old dev can take a client and add new features just snapping their fingers, let me tell you Corwyhn, it's not that easy, you believe what you want and make up any facts you like but when you want to add features to the client, you don't go to the server side guys... You take it to a m q dev. (or at least consult with one of them)
    Motherlee likes this.
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