3rd party programs

Discussion in 'The Veterans' Lounge' started by Zarakii, Oct 1, 2015.

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  1. Zarakii Augur

  2. Zarakii Augur

    I wont deny it gets used and out in the open without any concern at all to those i have seen using it as far as raids go i couldn't tell you if someone was using it or not i do however see it galore in group content. Either way what is the point in playing if that is how everybody rolls? i just dont see a script doing what a real player can do so i dont see this happening on raids but i guess you are right some do there was in fact an entire guild not long ago that was banned for a few of the players using said programs so i dont see how you can think devs/gms dont investigate even more so guilds that are always on top of progression
  3. PeteSamprasMMO New Member

    3rd party software isnt going to change you from terrible into an all star. It takes leadership, followership, a plan, and good communication/teamwork. Some events you can automate that but most are won through the aforementioned skillset. All the software does is allow you to focus on other parts of an encounter instead of worry about button smashing.

    FWIW, a RL friend in Triality used(es) it. I forget if she still plays but I did see her around about the last time I was on there. And one of our devs was a member in Crimson Tempest, iirc. I was in a couple bleeding edge guilds (server firsts and top 5s on most content) over my days and we had a bunch of users. I've personally noticed usage on every high end raid I have been on across a multitude of guilds as either a member or guest or just watching them as I chill near them.

    Usually, as some have pointed out, it is unavailable on beta.. however there have been some updates on beta the last few expansions to allow for usage. It isn't going to cheat the system and make something unkillable all of a sudden be easy mode; it is just going to provide more information, allow some things to be easier, and possibly some parts be automated.
    Motherlee likes this.
  4. Battleaxe Augur

    I do not think it [disillusioned] means what you think it means. Perhaps you meant deluded.

    While I do not know that GM's or devs currently watch early raid content kill attempts, I do know that at one time they did. Both visible and invisible/not showing up on /who. Further I was once in a raid that was trying a tactic and a dev appeared letting us know that what we were doing was not how they wanted it to be done. So we reset and tried something else.

    I've raided with a few top 15ish guilds myself. In 16 years I'm only (mostly) positive that I saw a proscribed 3rd party program used three times:
    1. Member of another guild found a way to gank that event which gave you the Chosen title so he could grab the shield.

    2. a ghostkiller

    3. Sadly a member of a guild I was in many years ago. Out of no where something like "Position 213 , 420; Omaha, retro rockets; 4xdfq581" appeared in /say and he covered it up by saying his cat walked across his keyboard.

    Hardly an epidemic. Much more likely to occur in group content with no one else in the zone than in a raid with 50 others looking on. I'm not absolutely positive but I think most of the guilds who have been disciplined was because of terrain exploitation - hiding under a bridge, popping through locked doors, etc..

    I don't use it. I've never been asked to use it. I'm certain that any raid progression guild I've ever been in I'd be guild removed if caught using it.
  5. rune00 Augur

    Well Brogett, Thanks for backpedaling on servers, I totally take credit for being able to change your stance going from: "I still wouldn't employ someone who has hacked my product and actively cooperated with servers” to "Personally I don't have an issue with it" :)

    Anyway I don't have a problem with most of your statements in your reply to me, just a couple factual errors and questions you have that I can answer:
    Well the thing about assumptions... Nope no breaking of any encryption needed for m q, it's not how it works, it doesn't intercept any encrypted packets or data, I can understand how people might think that though cause there has been plenty of posts here over the years claiming that as a fact, but sorry it's not so.

    As for what's downloadable on other sites, I can't comment on that, I refer you to my earlier statements on this in which I have always accepted that, yes there are a few "not so awesome" features in m q like mobs on map, I never disputed that fact so it's no point in regurgitate that opposition.
    Motherlee likes this.
  6. Wizdons Augur

    I dont think there is any point in debating about third party programs anymore. DBG in a way has stated the only server that this will matter on is the new TLP server. I dont expect anything drastic to change on the other servers about how it is handled or viewed. All software is ok to use and one software <<that shall not be named>> is not ok to use in aggressive manners or in AFK botting situations.

    So if you are very against 3rd party programs especially <<one not named>> they i highly recommend trying out the new TLP server.
  7. frankie78227 Augur

    Or just take your $15 a month and go play WoW as Blizzard actually tries to stop cheating in their game.
    Frenzic and Corwyhn Lionheart like this.
  8. Vlorg Elder

    Mostly because a ton of their member are actually RoI alts? ( like FnF used to have?)
  9. shiftie Augur

    Do people still not know there is a very real and non warping way to pop on top of the named in vt?
  10. rune00 Augur

    Please don't discuss exploits in this thread, I don't want it deleted or locked.
    (Warping is a active hack and should not be confused with acceptable third party tool features)
    Motherlee likes this.
  11. shiftie Augur

    I've heard it said by many people that someone who just appears on a named in vt must be hacking or using third party software. By being a bit adventurous one can access the zone without hacking. No more of an exploit than using levitation to get to the bridges in the hive or any other such thing. My point was that what appears to be one thing may indeed be something else entirely.
    Motherlee likes this.
  12. Motherlee Augur

    Nobody cares what you use if you're behind them. They only care if they're trying to catch up to you.
  13. shiftie Augur

  14. segap Augur

    "Acceptable third party tool features"? Anything that enhances game play beyond the capabilities of the client and the constraints it puts on the game should not be acceptable. It's people bypassing game play dynamics for the sake of getting an advantage.

    GINA is an example that most people probably consider harmless. Instead, raids have practically been tuned around people using triggers and we now all suffer through stupid emotes as a result. Devs had to respond to the high usage of a third party tool and the content has suffered as a result. And with triggers running, you barely even have to communicate with others while doing an event.

    The trash clearing in the old days made raids more immersive and epic. Gods and dragons were surrounded by their minions. This whole create an instance and hail to activate the boss thing takes away from feel of the game. It's cheap and empty feeling. Now everything is broken up in to nice 30 minute or less chunks for the instant gratification crowd. Raids actually require less effort than grinding since our mana (+ harvest abilities) and endurance pools are well tuned around 30 minute sessions. There is no consequence to failing because you can just hail and start it over again.
  15. Silv Augur

    Um... they added in-game audio triggers themselves which are *just* as effective as GINA, just a little less idiot proof. That said, I highly doubt the rationale of designing stupid emotes was due to 3rd party software. It was just one rain drop in a bucket of poor design choices which likely had no underlying motivation.

    Anyhow... while it's an interesting discussion the amount of forum violations in this thread probably caused Roshen to fall out of his seat so he couldn't get around to locking it. :eek:
    Elricvonclief and Motherlee like this.
  16. Axxius Augur

    Quadrants? You mean somebody didn't know the fire AE mechanic without hacking? :eek:

    Oh right, certain players/guilds were not around in 2008 to work on The Brothers Zek event when it was current. ;)

    Sorry, I don't believe you. The 'everyone' part specifically. Even if used as a hyperbole, it's still not right. 'Everywhere' - sure, it's very widespread. But not as much as you are trying to make it sound. I see way too many errors and imperfections in the day-to-day EQ play from way too many players, which wouldn't be possible if a whole lot of people used 3rd party aid. Programs don't make mistakes and don't fail to do the basic things.

    You haven't played in a while. Those are no longer the top 3 guilds. ;)

    I can't speak for the others, but our guild would absolutely be where it is today without any 3rd party aid (or even higher if you insist that the #1 guild wouldn't). I see what the players do in the raids I lead. While I have my suspicions about maybe 1-3 people from time to time, there is absolutely nothing 'magical' about the vast majority. We don't plan on any exceptional performance in our strats either, there is always a big margin for error.

    Does that mean that people use illegal tools mostly outside of raids, when nobody is watching? Maybe. Can't see it, except for the extreme cases. I personally don't believe the stories of ISbox'ing 2 groups of chars 24/7 for weeks and months to grind for the pre-nerf Tear of Alaris - tell that to young children at bedtime. ;) And I find it preposterous that the dev who used the progress of such group as a benchmark to adjust the quest could believe it was legit. But that's beside the point.

    The point is that:
    1. You are overstating the impact of illegal 3rd party software. It's not as important as you are trying to say. Perhaps your perspective is clouded by your own use of it.
    2. The devs seem to be giving in, sadly. SOE has never put enough effort into countering the hacks, and Daybreak has a lot less resources now. But to actually talk to those people - that's a new low. And it will backfire. Cheaters will cheat, no matter how much they promise not to. It's just what they do.
    Elricvonclief and Brogett like this.
  17. Zarakii Augur

    considering a dev has let this thread go on as long as it has im guessing i could just go download said program and afk kill for the next month and not even get a swat on the hand.........
  18. Rafather Augur

    Axxius, you need to edit your post again, one of those three is still the undisputed top guild, one iirc no longer exists and the third is more of a top 15-20 guild.
    Silv likes this.
  19. Triconix Augur

    You didn't realize that Quarken is from Triality before he joined ROI? There was also an old article about Triality breaking up.

    I assume you are referring to MS about the top 15-20 guild status because that's the only other choice. According to EGL they were the 5th guild to beat Arx5 and never finished lower than 7 on any of the events. Also, from ROF-CoTF they never finished outside the top 4. Unless they suddenly imploded just recently, I have a hard time believing they've fallen from a top 5 guild to 15-20. Even if they did implode, they are still top 5 until new content comes out.

    In case you missed them, there are hyperlinks there for you to look at.

    Maybe you should edit you post too?? ;)
  20. Brogett Augur

    The two points are not at odds with each other. I *personally* don't have an issue with the existance of the servers, but I can see very well how it impacted on SOE. In their position I wouldn't want to employ someone who worked on an server in the knowledge that my company secrets are likely to be going out of the door to bolster the projects. Pretty obvious.

    Now I'm not saying that's what DBG are doing, but cosying up to authors does seem rather like getting into bed with the devil. It's a program for cheaters. Period! You yourself have admitted it contains, as standard, features that provide information otherwise not available to normal players. Being able to track when named mobs spawn is a cheat, no two ways about that. Therefore people who use it also cheat.
    Frenzic likes this.
  21. Rafather Augur

    I'm trying to wrap my head around your comment on Qxx, but can't since when does him being in Tri have anything to do with RoI. Cept for slacking on front page updates.

    Will see if the other can prove me wrong in 6 weeks, till then my post doesn't need to be edited.
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