Woah, Woah, Woah... Why?

Thanks for the response. Hopefully someone is reviewing what this change would mean in terms of open world PVP as well as just inside an Arena map. Especially in relation to group buffs being active for missing roles for any group of 3 or more guys. Those aren't only turned on when people are in an alert, but are apparently just part of grouping up in general. That might be something to look at, as well.

This is an awfully long thread, so this might have been mentioned before - but there is a Damage Debuff in the game.

Controllers can put a Damage Debuff on a DPS, eliminating the 35%/45%/60% buffs to their attacks. (Or at least we're supposed to be able to do so according to the description under the powers; I know it worked at one point but haven't checked it recently). I've always wondered if we can wipe Home Turf buffs as well...

Well i am totally not spending all my replays on PvP Gear.

Fact of the matter is, even if its true (and doesn't just apply a 7% debuff like it does in pvp), trolls are the only ones who can debuff dps while dps can debuff anybody...and really, no good dps is scared of a troll.

Using dmg debuff as a conroller in role will remove the dmg bonus dps get for casting a power. Most controllers are not slotting these powers but it would be wise to use these powers in 1v1 against a dps because you can reduce the dmg they do down to your level but you have the advatage of power over time.

Timing is everything though. You want to use it when they are going for a clip and use a power clipping some hold attack. You will reduce the hold dmg down to having no bonus dmg if you do it right.

Which is also known as "The exact reason Giggles is so spastic over this". He'll be able to throw debuffs on everyone, including damage debuffs if you try to dps him, role debuffs to pop any shields.

In short, some people will happily send the whole game down the sewer to be King for a day. Nuts to that.

Yup, and my bad, I meant pve. But reading over something, I confirmed that it does strip the whole damage bonus, but it doesn't stick apparently...so we can just use another power and have a buff again.

Still as it stands, no dps is scared of a troll. Most are HL/Quantum/Gadget/Mental and therefore despise tanks and tank based dps, and are the main advocates of this "crown the dps" update. My Mental dps will rule (hypothetically, since I stopped pvping with him months ago), and my tank who is a pvp dps will dominate since he isn't a shield cyclers...trolls still won't stand a chance, and the troll based dps will still be at a disadvantage. Only the bad Ice dps will go away, the ones who make you hate life will stay around.

Wow... this thread is still going on!?

I already posted two essays in this exact thread. I'm not going to rehash points I already made. I just am very glad to see that SoE is reconsidering.

While yes they can use another power to get a bonus as a controller you have power over time on your side that the dps doesn't have. This only is good for 1v1 and possibly 2v2 but the key is outlasting the opponent and make them waste tons of power. Even debuffed you are regaining more power back then the dps. If you make them reapply dmg bonus over and over you will run them out of power. If they don't catch on to the tactics and see they have no dmg bonus they will do much less dmg to you. If you use shields you further increase your survival because they are hitting for much less.

Another key thing to note is that Iconic powers don't count as any role. So Hard-Light Shield can't be debuffed off of you. You can also use powers like AD or Phase Dodge to avoid dmg. Out of all the powerset when played right controllers have the best options in the game in controller role.

That cost more power than it generates, tho. Your debuff cost more than a simple modifier, and the powers do more than just modify...a dot is still a dot whether you take the modifier after that or not. Not mention most of the burst damage is done during a counter. Phase dodge is SS only and also a power drainer. Hard-Light Shield has a glaring weakness to anybody who has used it before and has a long cd.

I know what you're trying to get at, but its hard to outlast a smart dps as a class that's not based around survival, the troll debuff in the hands of a dps will only make it worse. My lowest modifier is much cheaper costing than your defense debuff and making you spam defensive moves will leave you with less power than me in the end. I dont NEED a modifier on at all times, my gear, sp allocation, and power set up is made for damage...regardless of whether or not the damage is boosted by 35-50%. A supply drop on me is better than on a troll, a sidekick giving me power and heals is better than the same for a troll, a trinket being popped by me will have more effect than on a troll, a soda popped by me is...well you get the idea. This is all 1v1 talk, tho.

Maybe you're some kind of revolutionary level troll that I have yet to see, but until I run across one that can successfully pull off what you stated...I'll just keep assuming thats fights against HLs and trolls will be free wins.

That is where knowledge of powersets comes in handy, knowing the powers that give huge modifiers. You pick what ones to debuff. You can't spam the debuff that is a given. Just like dps are not going to be able to spam the movement mode debuffs, you will run out of power doing that and not be able to seal the deal and finish the player off.

The key is using the debuff on the 40-50% bonus dmg powers. They cost the same if not more power then the dmg debuff power. If you can kite and make the dps waste more power then you and waste all the HT tricks to get power back while saving yours, you can come out ahead. If you expect to just go toe to toe and pound it out then yes you will probably lose vs the dps. You have to play smart and slick when facing good dps in 1v1.

Even with a ton of skill points if you don't have that dmg modifier on as a dps you take a huge hit to your dmg out.

I dunno about the "reconsidering" part, I get the feeling that they are gonna push thru this update regardless and basically tell us to pound sand if we don't like it. There are alot of other options stated in this thread and the ones the developers opened up in the developer discussion thread about the movement mode de-buffs but any real dev feedback outside of Jens answering a question or two has been non-existent. Either they really are re-considering things or just waiting till this blows over, but the silence coming from the devs side of this "discussion" has been telling....

You're correct. They said they are "reviewing," which may or may not mean the same as "reconsidering." Here's hoping.

That's quite the interesting loophole with the hard-light shield, I got $10 that says it becomes the new FOTM in PvP.

It has been FOTM for a while now.

This guy is a little late to the party...but we still have cake so stick around k .

I probably am....haven't set foot in a PvP arena in weeks, but I'll take come of that cake though!!

After thinking about it maybe these changes should only be applied in 1v1's or twos ? It does seem like a illogical gaming mechanic to implement but it wouldn't remove the strategic aspects of 4's 5's & 8's ?

This, this and again THIS!!!
Solve the bugs and broken mechanics before adding new ones!
Because adding new things, will cause only new imbalancing and does nothing for balancing, because players always will find out an OP-loadout/powerset-Combination. Always!