Stats Revamp 1.7 - Celestial

Discussion in 'Stats Revamp Archive' started by spord, Jun 9, 2017.

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  1. spord Developer

    Hey everyone, we’re back with another set of Stats Revamp updates! This thread is for feedback specific to Celestial powers. Before testing, please read the notes for our general changes here.

    The biggest concern from Celestial players was long combo attack damage output vs. short combo attack damage output. This has been addressed by rebalancing short combos accounting for their animations being clipped and longer combos getting an even larger damage bonus mulitplier than before the further into the combo chain you go.

    Most of the other changes made were related to the Ability Output Update section of Avair's post. Here are a few of the changes:
    • Malediction - The first tick of damage now happens when the ability is used instead of a second later
    • Benediction and Corrupted Benediction - Now heal back every two seconds instead of every second and have higher Dominance and Restoration caps
    • Renew - Now heals for more (upcoming patch notes)
    • The following abilities cone attacks now have a wider angle:
      • Haunt, Cleasned Haunt, Smite, Corrupted Smite
    Upcoming patch notes
    • Renew's base power cost is supposed to be 250 now
    • Like x 1
  2. Fatal Star Devoted Player

    When you say larger combos get a bigger bonus the longer in the chain you go, does that go by combo duration/animation, or by the number of inputs in the combo?
  3. Fatal Star Devoted Player

    Disregard the above question, I broke into some parses testing different rotations and spamming different combos to see how damage compares to one another, and overall, I have to give credit where its due. The combos that should be hitting the hardest definitely are.

    First off, I specced fully into might, utilizing the new might/power morph and i specced into power mastery to test how well I would hold up. The power regen is almost AM level, and I was able to last long enough to get off multiple parses without using a cola or any other sort of aid, so kudos to whoever came up with those brilliant ideas.

    Anyway, as far as damage goes, some basic results I got (copy and pasted from elsewhere):
    • smite/haunt spam is doing 21-23k on 3 targets and 10-12 k on single
    • RcW spam is doing 24-26k on 3, and 13-14k on single
    • WoTPcCS spam is doing 26-28 k on 3 and 15-17 single
    • Adding in PcDL or DLcP bumps the numbers up a lot, lets me pass 30 k on 3, so those definitely are hitting a lot harder, I was getting 18 k on single with them included into rotations
    In short, damage potential is where it needs to be. Longer combos are hitting the hardest and shorter combos are doing the lowest damage. That has been achieved. Now whether celestial is doing too little or too much damage in general is yet to be determined until I get more results from other powers and testers to compare to since player damage was decreased it changed what we previously used as a standard.

    A request I would like to make, celestial needs a nuke-type supercharge. Something that either buffs our damage like rage's berzerk or neo-venom boost (perhaps bringing back Dark Pact as a supercharge wouldn't be a bad idea). I say this because both damage related supercharges have a dps cut on them because they heal as well in damage role. This prevents cele from having a pure dps SC to utilize. Maybe removing the healing in damage role to buff the damage of cursed idol and life drain wouldn't be a bad idea.

    So far I like it a lot better then it previously was, you put the variety back into cele which is what I always loved about it.

    I will test the healing side later this weekend and type up another essay on that.
    • Like x 4
  4. Charmed Legacy Committed Player

    Soooooo after reading the notes I'm sure the people who only care about dps and battle healing are tickled pink...However for me you have seriously pee'd in my cheerios..Still no changes made for pure heals..Still no dom in healer gear..Still no changes to healing formula..and a blow to dom and resto stats was taken on top of all that..yea I noticed..I also noticed that some of the HoTs and Bursts were reversed. For example now CS is resto based where before it was dom based. AcB is resto based on the HoT and dom based on the burst. renew is ALL resto based and insane to say the least..and poor DL..well its all dom based now where before it was pure resto based.

    • HoTs- CS and AcB are fine if you spec full resto, but then that makes DL garbage because its now a dom based HoT.
    • Burst- Renew is bursting harder than DL now as long as you spec full resto. The burst on CS is fine as long as you spec full resto. The burst on Admonish (for using AcB) is fine if you spec full dom. The burst on DL is fine as long as you spec full dom.
    The problem here is the same problem you had before is that its heavily weighing one way or the other. If you spec full dom, your resto based heals go to poop. If you spec full resto, your dom based heals go straight to poop. If you split spec, well everything goes to poop..For celestial pure healing the heals are split massively being either pure dom based or pure resto based making it super difficult to do anything since we don't get any dom in healer gear yet it makes up 25% of the healing formula.

    I tested 3 different builds/ sp spec to get the numbers and feedback I'm providing.
    • One build was a resto spec placing 175 sp into resto and 19 into dom. This gave me 15,505 resto and 135 dom.
    • The second build was a dom spec placing 175 sp into dom and 19 into resto giving me 13,907 resto and 1,497 dom.
    • The last build was a split spec between dom and resto placing 97 sp into resto and 97 sp into dom giving me 13,964 resto and 378 dom.
    Modded with resto special forces mods and had resto special forces gen mods.

    Of course I had all the crit heals, and I also used the power mastery to see if it would help with the insane power cost for pure healing (it did, some). Do you see how crappy the dom is for healers yet you have it in the formula for 25% of the healing???

    I've said it before, and it looks like I have to say it again..You need to add dominance to the healer gear and adjust the healing formula. I think that would solve everything for the healing side of celestial, not to mention help other healer powers as well. I will also add this in for whatever it's worth. Not everyone wants to battle heal or battle support with any role for that matter. Some people actually enjoy running pure support roles, and at this rate it's not looking like that's an option with the way its heavily divided for celestial. Can provide you with the numbers collected if necessary.
    • Like x 4
  5. HymnOfMercy Dedicated Player

    I'm inclined to agree with Charmed Legacy.

    Fixing Celestial isn't difficult and stats would be the way to fix Celestial Pure Healing. Battle healing is still poopoo due to insane power costs.

    With Celestial (and with the other healers excluding Electricity) only one of the following is met in criteria for Healing in PvE and PvP.
    Healing Efficiency, Maximum Burst, Average Healing per second. This is what we're looking at with all four powersets.

    Celestial has power efficiency only when using shield rotation.
    Celestial has no real comparative burst potential compared to Electricity or even Sorcery now and that's factoring in the new McB and BcM. Even Guardians Light.
    Celestial has great average healing per second but that's undone by Power costs easily.
    This is not just for PvE.. this is also for PvP.

    Divine Light should be a good burst/hot.
    I can try to explain. I would like to see the glyphs give a heal when you run to a different glyph.
    That alone would give celestial some monster burst for the hefty cost it already has. Also give it's breathing room to cast hots in PvP after a shield breaks or if they are both on cooldown.

    Some of these abilities just cost too much for what you get out of them.
    • Like x 1
  6. CrappyHeals Loyal Player


    So i haven't messed with a lot of healing on test but ive been hearing all this dom and resto stuff from you guys/ladies and i just can't help but think why.......why not just have the healing formula work off resto then any other dom you get can be a bonus like live server not this split all over the stuff place.
    • Like x 3
  7. Charmed Legacy Committed Player


    That is my preferred route for healing in general is to be souly based on restoration, and for tanks to be souly based on dominance. I don't think they would honestly do that because they would have to change things for certain tanks as well, and I personally don't think that's something they would consider doing this late in the game so to speak.
    • Like x 1
  8. stärnbock Loyal Player

    not sure about the animation of the executer (35%), is that the right anymation???
  9. light FX 10000 Post Club

    Fatal dont the dummies give power back still? I honestly cant remember as i usually dont pay attention. I ask cause u say the power is AM level.
  10. Fatal Star Devoted Player

    Dummies still don't give power back. That's something I actually been meaning to request come back.

    Also as far as celestial goes, power regen is almost AM level. I tried fire and that drained me a lot quicker.
  11. light FX 10000 Post Club

    I only asked cause if the dummies did give power back it would be hard to say its AM level unless u had the power parse going. But if they arent then it doesnt matter. When i test i usually go into content anyway. Cant even remember last time i was at the dummies.
  12. Fatal Star Devoted Player

    I do parses to get a base idea of damage potential, and then I run content to test loadouts I may have come up with. I actually did a JFA run on test today I might upload.
    • Like x 1
  13. light FX 10000 Post Club

    Again im not questioning anything ya did. Just thought the power return #s would be skewed if the dummies were giving power. They arent. Asked and answered :D
  14. VioletSorceress Committed Player

    Id like to hear the answer to that question too. Seems like a nice fine mess half healer things being Resto based and other half being Domi based.
  15. Elusian Loyal Player

    Why has dominance being factored in healing with such a high impact?

    or

    Why is dominance even part of the healing formula?


    I think at this point people would like to know the reasons of this behind because as it seems pretty clear it causes more confusion at this point then clearing anything up.
    • Like x 3
  16. HymnOfMercy Dedicated Player

    Dominance has always been in the healing formula. It's just more potent than live servers now.
    It still takes 4 dom to equal 1% healing increase.
    It's just that resto is changed so that it appears that dom is too strong.
    The initial version of the stat revamp had dominance at 45%
    It's nowhere near as potent as that anymore.

    Btw:
    Same meta for healing just different value potency.
    30% resto + 25% dom is functioning off of a constant of both stats and that is as follows:
    3.33 resto or 3 resto for the sake of significant digits raises healing up 1% and 4 dom is equal to 1% healing increase.
    This translates to this:
    Ex.
    30% restoration
    Let's say you have a resto mod of 205
    205 x .30 is 61.5
    61.5 is your dividend
    61.5/3.33 is 18.468 is your scalar since that is the total increase you get.
    Ultimately that how things are broken down.
    Just take 8 as a example base value and multiply it then boom.
    147.774 or 148 heal with resto alone

    Or

    25% dom
    Let's say you have a dom mod of 205
    205 x .25 is 51.25
    51.25 is the dividend.
    51.25/4 is 12.8125
    12.8125 is your scalar since that is the total increase you get.

    Use same base number as an example then you get 102.5
    Or 103 for rounding sake.

    This does go further but anyways I thought I'd just give you the math behind some things.
    Hope this helps.

    Dominance is not as strong as its previous iteration either but restoration is stronger per value in lieu of the huge resto cut.

    There are a few things to consider:

    A bug where which dominance is registering more than restoration.

    Maybe some heals are affected more by dominance than
    Others. This seems to mainly affect hots and wave type healing abilities along with certain healing Supercharges (ones that shield or ones that have strong hot functions)
  17. RAbram Level 30

    I would like to more powers applying the Purified power interaction right now there are only 2 Retribution and Divine Light.
    Anoint, Admonish, and Benediction would be good additions.
  18. RAbram Level 30

    I see a lot of people asking about the healing and shielding formulas.
    the formula reads
    healing = Base Heal x (30% resto + 25% Dom)
    shielding = Base shield x (112% Resto + 150% Dom)
    my question is what determins the BASE HEAL and BASE SHIELD?
  19. HymnOfMercy Dedicated Player

    Base Healing = Healing/ (30% resto + 25% dom)
    Base Shielding = Shielding/ (112.5% resto + 150% dom)

    I am working on a list of all healing and shielding values at the base level.
  20. Duck X Active Player

    Plague hits very hard, better than live. Is this intended? Lol
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