Sorcery & Nature Revamp Ideas

Not that you had any credibility before, but this pretty much solidifies it. Let me simplify it for you, animation and cast times are reserved for exceptionally high damaging/healing moves. They have cast times to lower the effectiveness. "But, why would they do that?" Well Jimmy it's actually ridiculously simple, only a fool would not understand. If there were no cast times then only a few powers would be used due to there far superior effectiveness with no consequence. This would make most other powers useless. Or they would have to nerf these powers inline with the others.

Btw, aren't you the one QQing about half of sorcery being "useless"?

Like i said, they would maybe have to SLIGHTLY reduced anything dealt by those abilities.

P.s. I'm done with your trolling self. BTW Your spelling is atrocious.

You hit the nail on the head with this one.

PLEASE fix harvest for healers. Iit has the potential to be good, but its slow and doesn't put up HOT like the description says. Personally, I think Harvest should be like Savage Growth, when it comes to numbers healing wise and the duration of time HOT is up as well. Also it'll be nice if the devs give harvest a greater range as well. I feel you should get to choose between Harvest and Savage Growth seeing that they do pretty much the same thing. At the moment Savage Growth is just stronger version, and it can also do damage/knockdowns.

I'm a nature healer. But i totally think Sorcery should get something more meaning to their powers. When i was making my first Sorcery character i was think YAY Sorcery is gonna be Overpowered Then to find out everything is boring. You'll get tired of the loadouts Give something more meaning like you can encase people like doctor fate does. For nature give it more meaning a dog is NOT nature. Nature is Poison ivy let us be able to summon little monsters not too strong not too weak. I think Electricity needs new powers also it seems as they made all the healing powers boring. But other than that i love nature. Sorcery eh. Electricity EH i think should lessen the powers having to be spend for Electricity you can't just go in a PvP arena without a troll & think you can just spam heals no. But that's just my opinion. Sorry i've brought Electricity to the conversation.

This is how I would alter Sorcery to be competitive. I apologize to everyone as this will be very long and comprehensive.

First the Summoning Tree :

1) Summon Guardian - I would increase the health and defense significantly, and I mean significantly, like 300% health and defense bonus, maybe more depending on how exactly the pet scaling works. If he is a guardian then it makes sense that he has some tanking capabilities. It doesn't matter if he puts out crap for damage as long as he has a taunt and is able to actually off tank adds in a group, or tank them for you when you're soloing. Now if such a thing isn't possible because it doesn't meet your design philosophy of allowing a healing class to have a pet tank (which I understand) then get rid of this spell completely as it's otherwise worthless. I would be alright with tier 2 "Conjure Soul Well" replacing our tier 1 spell slot.

2) Boon of Souls - No change .

3) Conjure Soul Well - Even though you can clip this spell, there are times when I'm running low on power, and my soda is on cd, that I hesitate to cast it, because I'm not sure if I'll have enough power left over to clip this. If I can't clip it, then the cast time is not worth it. The biggest problem with the spell is the very long animation. Secondly I like this more as a healing spell rather than a damage spell. As a damage spell I there are times when I hesitate to cast this, because I worry about pulling adds from a distance, that the group or I am not engaged with. I don't want the range of the spell nerfed, but at the same time I would like it so that if a mob is not in combat already it does not get pulled into combat by the soul well tickling it, and pissing it off sending it my way. If that could be arranged that would be great, if not I would settle for the animation being reduced drastically.

4) Wrath - I don't understand what the point of having two identical spells are. Wrath and vengeance do the same thing, cost the same power, even have the same exact damage output, and both polymorph a target under certain conditions. The difference is wrath uses red soul aura, and vengeance uses bad karma. As it stands bad karma is a lot easier to apply as several spells do that, where as red soul aura requires a killed mob, and either a guardian out, or a soul well. As such the spell becomes vastly inferior to vengeance over a simple difference. Furthermore it's really just unoriginal to have identical spells in two different trees. I would understand this more if the spells were further down the tree, for instance tier 4 or 5 where it would require several power points spent to acquire the spell, but when you only have to spend 2 points in order to get this or 2 points to get vengeance (and the first point doesn't really even count as everyone gets the first point of a tree) then it's just mind boggling to me. Personally because I believe this spell to be inferior to vengeance I would alter it to do more damage, but remove the polymorph effect. A decent low cost burst damage spell would go a long way for us.

5) Summon Watcher - I would increase his health a bit. Nothing like I would for the guardian as I see that as a tanking pet, and hence he should have more health, and defenses, but enough to where the watcher doesn't die quickly. Lowering the aggro, of the pet so it doesn't get attacked as often could go a long way too, it might even remove the need to increase it's health if he's not getting attacked. Having to re-summon my pet because he died in a hit, and didn't even get a heal off is just a waste of power. Watching him die again with in 4 seconds of re-summoning him right after is just aggravating at best.

6) Transcendence - I see a lot of people complain about this spell. Truthfully I think it's fine, not great but not seriously broken like people make it out to be. It's not a pvp spell, and shouldn't be used as one. Anyone who thinks pvp is about standing still for 6 plus seconds casting doesn't really understand the concept of pvp. In pve it is possible to get knocked out of the spell too, however I find it you're paying attention and understand the fight mechanics, you can squeeze this spell in with out getting knocked out of the spell cast. Having said that the spell could be improved upon a little bit. Personally while I don't agree with the people who say that we should be immune to everything during the spell cast, and thus not be knocked out of our casting animation, I do think that the casting animation could be shortened a little bit. Reducing the cast time by about 2 seconds would drastically help this spell.

7) Grand Summoning - I know some will disagree but I personally believe this to be the most useless spell in the game, perhaps any game for that matter. The damage output of this spell is just atrocious. While I haven't done the math, I'm willing to bet I would get more damage by not casting the spell, and keeping the bonus to weapon damage from having a 100% super charge, than waste the super charge and watch my summoned pets tickle the mobs to death, and fail. Further more I have a problem with the idea of anything being a 100% SC, because it's a one time deal, and thus has to be great in order to justify using a power point, and a load out slot. It's not practical in pvp and the damage out put it would have to do in pve to warrant a load out slot in a fight over any spell that could be used several times over would have to be so high that it would be completely unbalanced in pvp. Honestly I'm not even going to try to suggest alterations for the spell, because I truly believe there is no saving it. A brand new spell in it's place would be my suggestion. If you were set on creating a damage spell that costs a 100% sc the only thing I would even suggest is to allow the spell to create a copy of ourselves. The copy would do the exact same thing we are for 30 seconds. Thus the spell would scale according to us, and in a pvp setting it would still allow the player to cc us, as best they can so we don't just burst them down instantly. Thus if we're cc'd our replica isn't attacking as it's doing exactly what we are. I suppose in the worst case scenario a player gets killed quickly and easily, and then doesn't have to worry about the spell for a long while after.

8) Summon Fury - Simple increase the health and damage of this summon.

9) Transmutation - Another spell that is similar to one in the destiny tree, but again inferior. Transmutation mimics karmic backlash, but costs a little more power, doesn't spread bad karma, and is a tier 4 spell instead of a tier 3. Yes I understand it does a little bit more damage than karmic backlash under certain conditions, but really I stand by my belief that this spell is inferior to karmic backlash in almost every way. It also has a very short range, essentially requiring us to be with in melee range which can be rather dangerous depending on the content. Furthermore the damage out put of this spell is really weak. Personally I would change the spell to do aoe damage to the target, and anything near it regardless of where the target is. So if the target is standing 20 feet away, or however distance is measured in this game, the spell hits him where he is, and anything nearby, for modest damage.

10) Sacrificial Offering - I've said this before, and I'll say it again it makes more sense to re-summon a pet, than it does to waste a load out on this spell tor refill their energy. I suppose if multiple people have pets out one person having this spell isn't the worst idea ever, as you can refill the energy of multiple pets, rather than just your own, and in that case save a little bit of energy over all for the group, but really due to how badly our summoning tree sucks it's just a waste of points to go down this far into the tree and get this talent. It's still a waste of a load out, and very situational at best. It's even sadder that this is our tier 5 spell. I know a few people have made it a point to let me know this power also heals, so I should rejoice. What they fail to say is that it costs almost 2 times the cost of rejuvenate and heals for 1/4th to 1/2 as much, over the coarse of 3 ticks. Honestly I have no problem with the self inflicting wounds. I have no problem with it consuming a red soul aura to not inflict damage, but the effects really need to be increased. Our tier 5 spell is a joke at best. I would personally just change this to a hot, for 4 people. Say 4 people get healed equal to what a rejuvenate would heal them for, over the course of 3 to 4 seconds.

11) Life Element - My biggest problem with this spell is that if you cast it, but something happens (like a stun out of no where) where you don't break the crystal, then there's no heal. You just wasted 350 power for nothing, your team mates are dying because they got no healing like they would have if you casted something else, and to make matters worse the enemy could even pick up the crystal and heal themselves. That's highly counter productive. Why risk it. Is the small damage provided by the spell really worth it? In my opinion no. I think what I would do is make this spell an elite version of "Conjure Soul Well" if you're in a healing role, then the spell summons a crystal from the ground that can't be attacked or broken, that periodically heals for a lot more than the soul well does. If you're in a damage roll than the spell damages for a lot more than what soul well would. If the mobs die, with in the area of effect of the spell, then the spell provides a significant heal, or damage to everyone in the area.

12 Soul Storm - Again a lot of people say this spell is worthless, and I disagree. I think it's a decent spell, but it suffers from the same problem that a lot of our other spells suffer from, cast time. It really needs to be lowered, and the spell would be fine.

Already had a lot of text in the last post so I'm putting the Destiny tree in it's own post.

1) Condemn - I like this spell for pvp. It's definitely not strong by any means, but it gives us about a second to do something while our opponent is still stunned. Usually I recast WoD, which does a little bit more damage to enemies with bad karma, which this spell adds, but I suppose there are other options as well like casting boon of souls, or maybe something else that I've not even considered. It's a tier 1 spell so I can't complain to much about it, and it's a hell of a lot better than summon guardian, but a slight damage boost, and maybe an extra second added to the enemy stun duration would go a long way here.

2) Shared Fate - It's weak, and it's range is short, but it does spread bad karma. It also does give golden aura and a really weak heal. Not really a healing spell, as golden aura can be gained from a number of better healing spells. It's primary purpose really is just to spread bad karma. I don't even mind the pathetic damage that it does, as long as the range of the spell is increased.

3) Rejuvenate - I was going to say make it so this spell heals, yourself and one other target. However I've noticed that it does just that on several occasions when I was running duos. I'm not sure if that's a bug, or if the tool tip just isn't updated correctly, but if it's healing 2 people (yourself, and one other) for a moderate amount of health, plus giving golden aura then this spell is fine as is. If it's a bug, than change it to work this way permanently.

4) Vengeance - Assuming you guys change wrath to what I had suggested then no changes are needed here.

5) Polymorph - I don't understand why anyone would waste 25% SC to get a result of what Vengeance can accomplish. I suppose a healer who doesn't want to waste a load out on vengeance plus another spell to inflict bad karma could make use of it. Even then you're only saving yourself 1 load out, at the cost of 25% super charge, and a little bit of power. Personally I think a powerful healing spell would work better here for the power cost, but that's just my opinion. I'm sure there is someone out there who actually uses this spell as a pvp healer, they're just very few and far in between.

6) Karmic Backlash - Again if transmutation were to have the changes I suggested Karmic Backlash wouldn't need a lot of changing. I would make it a ranged spell that does damage to a target, and a small area around him, of course dong less damage than what transmutation would do normally, because this spell costs less power, is a lower tier spell and provides a bad karma de-buff, but that's about it.

7) Baleful Transmogrification - Yes this hits hard. Our hardest hitting ability, but for a 100% sc it should. Even for the damage it does, I don't agree with the spell. First of all, it has a range similar to circle of destruction, and ticks for 3 times. The first hit doing the most damage, and the next two hits doing only a little bit more than the first one by itself. The problem is that it's easy to move out of the area, and avoid a big portion of the damage. I would also rather have a different ability in my load out that could be used several times with in a fight, than a one hit wonder. I don't want to repeat my Grand Summoning rant, so I'll just leave it at this. A 100% SC needs to be awesome, and having 2 damage type of abilities isn't very productive. Instead an ability that lets us rally players who have gone past the 10 seconds allotted to them for being rallied would be great. A dps could have that in his or her load out to bring back a healer or a tank, or even a troll in a boss fight. That would help everyone out a lot more, than a one time shot of a few thousand points of damage.

8) Invocation of Renewal - Great spell but 2 things. 1) Lower the cast time roughly by half. 2) There is no reason this is the spell that should give us a 60% buff to damage in our damage roll. That should go to a different spell.

9) Weapon of Destiny - Let it last an extra couple of seconds, and instead of having it tick 3 times (4 with bad karma) give it 4 & 5 ticks respectively.

10) Final Ruin - I'm going to agree with Zpirit on this that this spell should not have a cast time. Let it just be a one time hit, instant spell. Also if this spell had the 60% damage buff it would make a lot more sense.

11) Circle of Destiny - Really no change here. I know you guys just recently nerfed the base healing of this spell with out saying anything and I'd like to see that returned to normal, but over all it's a decent spell that doesn't need any major adjustments.

12) Arbiter of Destiny - Personally I like this spell. One thing people don't realize it that it provides extra bonuses to crit chance and crit magnitude for both healing and damage, and increases healing by a lot. I'm not really sure why weapon combat is out of the question. I get that we're a bat, and animation might not compute, but who decided to go that route anyways? Honestly I think the spell is highly under rated, but not with out it's faults either. I'd change this to an aura, that provides us with the same bonuses the spell does currently, but allows us to keep our movement and allows us to use our weapon combos if we so choose too.

I agree partially with you, but having been working on a great loadout for Sorcery DPS, I would have to say Karmic Backlash is not at all useless (personal opinion of course and you might find it useless, and there is nothing wrong with that.)

Transmute after GU24... yup, useless. definitely fixed the wrong power here.

Backlash spreads bad karma like no other my main combo is Karmic + Circle = win

Shared Fate... too weak to have in MY loadout but to have a pet that does it for you is very nice

Sacrificial Offering - Though the 50% increase in damg for use is nice, and I run watcher so I almost always have a red aura.. but you are right... the power it takes to use isn't worth it when you have other powers that give that same 50% for WAY LESS POWER cost.

Vengeance doesn't work more than half the time... and from what I have heard, you need Dom to even get it to work proper... what healer or even DPS for that matter has even remotely the amount of Dom it takes to get this to work?... So IF this power worked proper, it would be great in PVP. (still is pretty good in PVP, but could be better).

Grand Summoning - Yup, not that great for the sc cost..

Polymorph is another power that doesn't work more than half the time... and if it did, I could see this more of a PVP power.. but other than that.. completely agree.

Soul storm.. someone was telling me there was a 60% damage increase with this and that might have been in the past, but it's only 50% now.. thus making this not worth the power points to even spend to get this when I would much rather have the iconics 3% and 10% damage and crit damage increase.

I think Harvest is a great power. It opens the door to an alternative style of Nature healing from the standard model. It's meant to be a potential replacement for Blossom. Its heal is bigger for each pheromone stack out there...AND...doesn't consume the pheromones. That means you can have some interesting clips. The only problem between Harvest and Savage Growth is that they're both flagged damage. That means you don't use them in the same clip. You're meant to put Savage Growth out ahead of time and then start out your burst clips with Harvest instead.

Harvesting
Many players don't realize that Harvest has a similar PI to Blossom except that it doesn't remove pheromones. This model is a variation on classic pheromone stacking. You let your first few stacks of Savage Growth, Cross Poll and Metabolism occur naturally. Metabolism may be de-emphasized slightly since its pheromones compete with the pheromones from Harvest, however it's still useful as a heal for it's primary ticks. That said, Blossom is meant to be avoided but is there for key scenarios. Blossom can also be used for more traditional bursting styles if you feel the need to fall back on that. Keep in mind this approach works best when you focus on organically re-establishing pheromones shortly after any use of Blossom. There are many variations of heal clipping that this enables. The clips with Cross Poll are stronger than the ones with Metabolism but that requires tactical positioning.

GENERAL CLIPS:
Savage Growth=>Metabolism: (pheromones out):
Cross Poll=>Metabolism: (pheromones out):
Savage Growth=>Cross Poll=>Metabolism: (pheromones out)

STAPLE BURSTS:
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Meta (medium)
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Cross Poll (large)
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Cross Poll=>Meta (quite large)

EMERGENCY BURSTS:
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Blossom=>Meta (super large)
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Blossom=>Cross Poll (super duper large)

HAIL MARY:
(pheromones out): Harvest=>Blossom=>Cross Poll=>Meta (super duper crazy stupid large) <-- Biggest burst heal a Nature player could possibly put out in a single clip.

Your post is horrible because you say "make it like" "it should act like" "it should like" PEOPLE NEED TO STOP TRYING TO MAKE ALL THE POWERS THE SAME DAMN THING.

Your post is pretty much this.."Pleaze make Sorc OP since itz Teh 1 powerah I use"

I have been using rejuv-shared fate-boon-cop-arbiter-condemn/wod. I never understood the bad karma aspect since most have recommended watcher and soul well. I use condemn on a strong add/boss to give him bad karma and if there is more ads I use shared fate ton spread it. Bad karma actually does heal whoever is getting hit. Making it awesome to heal with cop and rejuv.

I mention this because a lot of players use "cookie cutter" loadouts without experementing to what can be it's full potential. All these posts with sorc and nature revamp ideas are great but please post what truthfully should be beneficial to the powers if you have tried a lot of the possible loadouts/powers. Seen a lot of posts on how nature is weak and can't measure up to sorc or electric. I have solo healed every raid (except t5 of course) with little to no deaths when I was nature. Its all on how you (the player) use your powers. NOT saying they are perfect as they can all use some love but make sure you are not spitting random stuff to make it op.

CoP is already like the old inferno and Guardian taunts like decoy I just added decoy's damage mitigation. Way to overreact because I apparently used one of your trigger words...

only Read the first page and half of the last page(this page?).
For the shape-shifting? they should just have a another power set called 'Primal' then split between Shapeshifting and Savagery.
I think the Shapeshifting tree should have all the forms and MORE to choose from. Savagery would have non forms.
And it should be made so forms can be switched at anytime, like go from dog to insect easy. And I did like the idea of making it a hybrid role, so each form gives a stat increase.

As for plants? I don't give a flying @#$% about plant powers. No offense I just don't play that tree.

First, he/she barely suggested anything new to fix sorcery.
Second, i don't remember reading a post of your ideas, so either contribute something worthwhile to the thread or just keep your keyboard to yourself.

P.s. Plz stay constructive everyone.

Make all animalistic forms gender specific.... Make all creatures who you can change into look more fearsome (for example a bear instead of a gorilla, a lion instead of a dog and an eagle instead of a flying dinosaur). Also make the animals change with regards to which faction you're affiliated with (or atleast make the animations different). I like nature Dpsing as is, except that we need one decent supercharge...

I would just like to sum up your analysis on both power trees. and I personally think you have a fine grasp on the power that is sorcery.

As a DPSer in Sorcery, I'm mostly looking at the Damage modifiers....

Final Ruin... 50%
Circle... 50%
WOD... 45%
Karmic Backlash.. 40%
(Boon for Clipping)... only 35%... looking to replace this
and to spread BK.... I run a watcher (I know right? a watcher in DPS stance?)..It works for me (and enemies like to attack IT instead of me... increasing survivability).

and personally the powers I listed don't really need to change much.

The power that doesn't make much sense is Soul Storm, it as a long cast time to only give you a 50% damage increase?

Sacrificial offering the power cost is way too much for only 50% damage increase when you ahve the other powers I listed giving the same damage increase for less power cost.

Sorcery definitely needs a better DPS supercharge... Trancendence is great... for healing.... and polymorph never works or rarely works. Personally I would like to see something similar to Soul Storm in the form of a 50% SC... but have it hit harder (as it IS a supercharge, yeah?)

and Grand Summoning is the lamest for the 100% sc cost?
And arbiter could be better if Sorc powers could be spammed a bit easier.. but as it stands.... it's better for healers than DPSing.

Don't mind that isimply Guy, he is a huge troll.

Vine Lash is getting a shorter animation for GU26! Be nice if anyone who can use Test server could maybe try it out and let us know how it is?

iSimply hate him.