So, Doom Spin Non-Mastery will get fixed?

Two things - first : "Yes, you can get countered while you're using it". That doesn't keep people from using it, because it's a good damage producer, but it DIRECTLY PREVENTS IT FROM DOING 92K DAMAGE A SECOND CONTINUOUSLY IN ACTUAL CONTENT, EVER.

Full Stop.

It's not about "O the counters make it a bad move!" It's about "Counters directly stop the flow of damage instantly with this weapon" and "This weapon takes up a lot of time in your rotation to reach its full damage output".

You can get back to the "production" segment of DW - > Flurry Rotation instantly, DOTs are still producing, Doom Spin just stops dead and it has to be restarted before it's doing ideal damage again. Some rotations have hiccups in different places, this one just hiccups a Lot.

Second - and this is very important - I don't think I'm suggesting that other weapons should not also perform well. Maybe not quite THAT well, 2H is big and slow, none of its combos are fast or short, they should ALL hurt. This SHOULD be the strongest weapon in the game. But as a baseline for performance expectations, yes, other weapons should be doing better too and I think there's an argument to bring them up to a higher baseline.

As such - I don't care about the discussion from the standpoint of disputing whether or not Weapons as a whole need improvements. They do. I think Doom Spin is in a good spot because it makes a good bar to reach for, and because it points out some of the fallacy in basing testing on Sparring Target output alone.

I do care about the discussion from the standpoint of comparison to Might Powerset performance, because

"A lot of Might Powersets don't work correctly right now"

and

"no one crying about Doom Spin being broken is saying anything about the broken-*** Powersets that they're getting these results with".

In fact, every example we have showing how "broke" Doom Spin is is using a top-production Might Powerset to drive home the comparison, which does an awesome job of showing how imbalanced the Powerset in the game actually are.

I personally consider it to be the height of intellectual dishonesty to be picking at something that DOES equalize damage output from "bad" Powersets being spearheaded by Rage and Gadgets; it reads less like "oh this is game breaking stuff" and more like "I'm trying to prevent anyone from competing with me". Which is essentially the height of bad form.

That's not true. I've seen atomic might AOE wreck doomspinners in the new elite raids. AOE might have larger ranges and can't be countered.

You just listed a bunch of stuff that people have to do to in order to use Doomspin really well. A lot of things you have to pay attention to and put effort into timing or loading-out for. It's almost like... if you put in more work, planning, and take more risks... you get greater rewards.

isn't risk / reward the entire mantra behind functional Melee damage output? oh wait.

IT TOTALLY IS.

Probably bad doomspinners then.

Sane can be said about doomspinners. I’m okay with people doomspinning, I’m not okay that we don’t really have other alternatives outside from dual wield and handblasters that have similar potential as far as damage output goes.

Actually there are alternatives to dw and hb. Anyone who tested the weapons extensively knows which weapons need a little work and which weapons need a lot of work. So I don’t agree that doom spin is out of hands. Instead I believe that other weapons need some form of buff as well as powers. Some powers need some sort of buff.

What are the alternatives that produce 40k-ish range on single target?

I've made DW - > Flurry do 35 + using Mental as a powerset with *one* DOT in my Loadout, and I'm a midcard performer with that weapon, at best, and I don't have the 255 or 257 DW weapon yet.

I'm producing less that that on average with Doom Spin using a better sword.

And 40K is a spike, and if you're actually using it you would know that it's not an average for Single Target Doom Spin - the average for a 60 second count is closer to 32-35K, individual Single Target can drop to the 25-27K range based simply on where you're at in the combo itself in a 10 second parse.

I tested this NOW, FYI. Assuming some drift for late-game CR, it could possibly do more on a regular basis - I dunno about an average 5-7K more, but the other weapon - DW - is subject to the extra same drift, so there goes the "what else does that" theory of operation...

And you're standing at ground zero to do that damage.

That another weapon can already produce.

So...

None. I have tested all weapon combos and all mastery combos. No combos come close to touching doomspin on both dummy and especially in content. Brawling regular combos such as tap hold hold can sometimes hit similar numbers with crits but it requires you to clip the last hit with a might power which isn’t practical in content. Staff melee 3x holds parses decently high too if you clip powers on third hit but again, it’s not practical in the actual content because you are stuck still. Currently, regular combos > mastery combos because mastery combos cannot be clipped early. On pure range single target, it’s obviously dw flurry by a long shot then> staff tap tap hold+might power clipped each time on hold and brawling mastery that is 100% dependent on crits clipped into might power. That’s all we have for single target. For multi target range if’s hand blaster mastery, dw explosive shot, arrow storm and brawling shurikens+might power. Nothing else is worth using... HB and dual wield can parse around 60k at range with good crits, if they don’t crit you are not doing much damage. Then you have doomspin that has the potential to do 100k in 10 seconds and still does more damage even if you get blocked twice. Obviously at this point people wouldn’t be using doomspin if they knew they’d get interrupted and are familiar with the instances/adds/hallways enough to not get interrupted slash they have adjusted their loadouts and put a breakout in their loadout.

just witnessed in dme...its beasting

I yesterday beat a doomspinner CR 292 by 200.000 only and he was using Venom+Transformation+Strategist all 180 using 5 strategies...

1) Pop Omega BEFORE create a group;
2) In the base, changing Power Mods to Health
Mods;
3) Changing from Electricity to Light;
4) Popping a buff in Health that DOES NOT STACK with Omega;
5) Using Tetradon of Urgund instead of Scrap of Soul Cloak;

1) how do you know he didn’t do the same,
2)ok
3) just to beat another dps?
4) why not pop a dps buff instead? Waste
5) you buffed him/her too


I’m sorry but the list of things you did are either things he probably did too or just unneeded...

and he verified that there is, in fact, something that can beat doomspin, which seems contrary to literally the entire stance taken in the thread so far, but sure. I love it when someone else verifies things too.

if it doesnt stack it will overwrite the omega buff... lmao
but i am not aware of any buff which doesnt stack with omega buff...oh wait i believe there is that account-bound cola u get from TC/Booster Bundle which doesnt stack with omega.

yeah, it directly overwrites, and it has a 1% bonus, instead of a 5%

1)Probably he/her did;
2)Fine;
3)Just to beat HIM/HER;
4) OMEGA is a DPS buff too;
5) Might buff for a Doomspinner or a DW-BOW spammer?

5. Yep, especially if that person was gadgets

Quantum.

Some buffs stack and other buffs do not stack.

Omega stacks with another dps buff... or did you not know that? So again, why use a health buff over another dps buff? And yes, prec dps use might powers too...