Snyderverse-an unpopular opinion

Oh wow - did not know this lool.

I can think of ONE "Individual" from modern society that would've perhaps had an issue with Idris Elba as Heimdall based off of what you stated BUT - as my man Forrest eloquently states -

Man I don't want to deflect the thread AWAY from my Man Zach Snyder but I would've LOVED to have been there defending DC characters from the charlatan Stan Lee lol.

Love ya, Stan (RIP) but he lays the silliness on rather thickly in his comedy routine with DC.

Spider Man? LOOL get his scrawny behind OUT of the city and you render one of his strengths (Web Slinging) useless. Saw this in the 1st Spiderman movie from 2017 with Vulture.

He also looses the quickness battle with Superman and I'd guess he'd barely match even Wonder Woman's quickness but once she got his hands on him it's lights out.

And he can't fly....oh wait! WHO CAN FLY on the Avengers lool?

Thor needs his hammer....Captain America can't fly.....Black Widow, Hawkeye....Hulk has anger management issues AND if you utter "Thanos" around the LATEST version of Hulk he shrivels up and withers away.

Iron Man is the ONLY Avenger who can fly but he's lousy in close combat - see his defeat against Captain America and Winter Soldier in close combat.

I'd doubt he'd last long against Superman even in his Hulk Buster suit because Supes would either pry him out of it, BURN him out of it OR FREEZE him out of it.

Superman would be a WHOLE 'nother level of POWER for The Avengers - especially if he cuts loose. Super Speed AND quickness (see his battle against Flash here)



and not to mention his Heat vision and Freeze Breath and super strength.

And Stan - Superman CAN FLY because he's KRYPTONIAN on EARTH under a YELLOW SUN you igit lool..............

Don't get me started.

Just to be fair, I'd be just as perturbed at a Nicholas Cage Superman. And like you said there's a right way and a wrong way to do things. For example, when Chadwick Boseman passed, there were rumors that the new Black Panther would be Asian. My first reaction was, um, the character is Black Panther for a reason but all of that aside, IMO WB is ruining DC. Once upon a time there was DC and only DC and the characters were as iconic as they come. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash have been around for over 80 years. To put it in sports terms, DC is the NFL while Marvel was the AFL and WB doesn't seem to want to get it right. The Snyder cut JL would have been a hell of a start but nope, instead of building on that they made silly origin stories like Joker and The Batman. Well, at least I can still binge watch the old Batman TV series on Decades.

Dude (Stan Lee) starts in on "Superman and the science behind his flight powers" but conveniently forgets "The Radioactive Spider" conundrum loool.............

Tell you what - try and find a Spider in a Nuclear Power plant or ANY Radioactive building constructed by Humans, let that thing BITE you and tell me how you feel later lool..................

C'mon Stan.

Ah, but there is a black alternative to Dirty Harry. We had Shaft and if you ever saw the original Richard Rountree Shaft movies you'd see what I mean(part of the aforementioned blacksploitation movie phase). The Samuel L. Jackson version is terrible by comparison. That said, you mentioned making Holmes a POC would be silly. Well, now you know what I mean about making Ann Boleyn black which is doubly stupid since Boleyn is an actual historical figure while Holmes is not. As for Battlestar Galactica, it didn't hurt that Katie Sackhoff is smoking hot. However, there is an instance where historical figures were made POC's and it worked wonderfully and that's the play Hamilton. I've watched that at least a dozen times and love it even though my daughter would play the soundtrack so often that I would hear it in my sleep(she's in love with Lin Manuel Miranda).

And that is a bit of my sadness and disappointment with the rumored Henry Cavill departure.....IMO he followed a GREAT line of Supermen (Christopher Reeve, Brandon Routh)......

I do have some hope with WD / DC Cinematic Universe, with its latest takeover by Discovery.

I just think there are some Big Wigs there that are out of touch with its fan base.

Never give up hope.

Try doing THAT, Point Break lol.

ALSO -



Who in the Marvel Cinematic Universe wants to RACE? I'd guess Quicksilver would get a kick out of this but I don't believe he's anywhere NEAR Flash OR Superman's speed....I don't believe even Supes has accessed the Speed Force if I'm not mistaken so that's that.

This is not even counting the SHAZAM Speedster, Darla, played by Megan Good



Thank you Zach Snyder for establishing some pretty cool Feats of Power for DC.

https://deadline.com/2022/03/discovery-sets-board-of-directors-warnermedia-merger-1234979430/

I appreciate your honest take on Snyder’s film making and not just throwing them all out because you disliked one or two of them. I agree that his story telling is VERY visual and in that way it is very unique. I think he takes a lot of inspiration from comic books and how a single page of art with no dialogue can tell a story. He also tries to be very true to the source material.

You may not know this but 300 was a Frank Miller graphic novel and Snyder essentially used it as his story board and made a shot for shot movie of it. So visuals and dialogue were mostly Frank Miller, Snyder just brought it to life.

Watchmen was also done in the same way but with the altered ending. I liked the altered ending, I thought it brought the story more full circle, but I get if people are upset with the change.

What I find odd with MOS, and BvS and the people that dislike them is that they seem to forget they were written by Chris Nolan and David Goyer which of course gave us the Dark Knight trilogy that everyone loved. So if you like Nolan’s writing and Snyder’s visuals then you should love those movies. What I like particularly about the two of them is their multi layered story telling. You can go back and watch their movies over and over again and pick up new things you’ve never got before. Their combined layering on top of Snyder’s great action scenes make his superhero movies the movies I rewatch the most because that keeps it fresh.

Justice League again had Nolan and Goyer writing and I thought it was great. I do not think if it had been released in theaters it would have been the 4 hour cut, it probably would have just been 3. He just released it as a 4 hour cut for the fans and because it was just getting streamed. I don’t think the final dystopia justice league scenes or Aquamans singing girls scene would have made the final cut and I don’t think it would have hurt the movie at all.

Sucker Punch... well it had amazing visuals and the story was definitely layered, but I think their was a struggle to really care what happened to the characters because it was hard to tell what was really going on. Definitely not his best work, but it was kind of like watching a Japanese anime In Japanese, great art work but clueless as to what’s going on.

I liked the change of pace in superhero movies compared to marvel. He wanted to brings Lord of the Rings feel to the Justice League which I feel he did successfully. Marvel walks a fine line of comedy action and story which can take the whole genre off kilt if not careful. Just look what happed to the original Burton Batman movies. Pushing too much comedy into a movie can really destroy story. Deadpool 2 also another example of comedy subverting any real stakes in the movie. It was funny but not compelling. There definitely an audience out there for serious and compelling superhero stories.

I didn't mind 300, it was an historical accuracy nightmare but it was a pretty good film. Even though Frank Miller has gone nuts in the past few years.

My favourite description of Watchmen, it was an amazing interpretation of Dave Gibbon's book, and a horrible interpretation of Alan Moore's. Having said that, Moore himself has said if he wanted to write a movie, he would have written a movie, but he wanted to write a story that could only be told in a comic. We could debate endlessly the merits of making a movie from source material that the creator doesn't want turned into a movie.

Sucker Punch...I'm going to tread around this lightly because I really don't want to derail the conversation. I couldn't get past the misogyny and violent eroticism. Both of those things are in a lot of Hollywood movies, and in most cases I can roll my eyes and enjoy the movie, but in that movie, it was so pervasive that I really couldn't get past it.

The Marvel Movies, where to begin. They're the definition of formulaic. It's funny because you can follow the directors, any time they've brought in someone who has an independent vision, they're almost always given the boot after a few months. Are they enjoyable? Absolutely. Are they good for film as an art form. Definitely not.

Having said that, I note that DC in the past 2 years seems to have come to grips with the idea of just making good movies, and not worrying about a contiguous universe. Copying the Marvel formula hasn't panned out, so find your own formula for success.

Regarding Watchmen, I saw this Snyder interview years ago talking about the making of Watchmen. WB had the rights to Watchmen and they were going to make a Watchmen movie and they offered it to Snyder. Snyder said he wanted to turn it down largely because of how good the graphic novel is he didn’t feel anyone could improve upon it. He said the only reason he did it was because he knew no one else would try to stay true to the source material like he would. He essentially took it so it wouldn’t get Clooneyied up like Batman did. If he hadn’t of done it WB would have gone to another director, so the movie was getting made one way or another. What’s amazing is he made it in 2009 and the only other movie in that style was 300. Nolan had just made Batman Begins in 2003 so the genre at this point was still super realistic or comedic like Rami Spider-Man. No one I had figured out to weave the fine line of realistic yet still pulp comic feel until Snyder. I think it’s ok to criticize the film, but just remember we could have gotten a Schumacher or Rami Watchmen instead and how do you think those would have turned out? So I’m just grateful he tried to honor the comic the best way he felt he could.

Sucker Punch yeah like I said before pure Japanese anime feel.

I do like that WB is finally letting directors go in their own direction, but you still need some sort of shared universe in order to tell the deeper comic stories. I mean how many times can we hear the Batman or Superman origin story before we can finally move on. It takes a lot of story telling to get to Jason Todd story arch, going from him and Batman to just his personal stories. Their is also a need to create a world where the superhero’s are believable and can coexist together, and I feel Snyder did a good job creating that world. I mean it’s ok to not like BvS, Ironman 2 was a bust too, Faverea was essentially fired for it, but yet the universe was able to continue on. Snyder created a believable space for stories to be created in and I want to see that space continued with new and other compelling stories. I hate it when I see all these people wanting to start from scratch again. So then we got to get another Superman, Wonder Woman, and Batman orign story just to get back to them meeting up again and the fans get upset again because it’s not their Superman, Batman, or Wonder Woman. It’s insane. Let’s tell this story first and then when it’s over we can start new.

Ultimately, what I have to remind myself, and my movie snob friends, film like any art form is completely subjective. If you like it, then the filmmaker did his job for you. It's funny to go back and read the reviews of Star Wars in 1977. The critics hated it. Some like Pauline Kael went back later on and apologized. But obviously what was important to the film elite then, was being left behind by the audience.

I'm in my fifties, perhaps Snyder is part of a new wave that is leaving me behind. Such is life.

Snyder isn't leaving you behind, QE. Not based off of your commentary here in this thread.

You appear to be open to a decent story line with your films and you have critiqued (and rightfully so) much of Zach Snyder's stuff regarding DC.

You've ALSO seemingly made yourself open to the possibility (and - IMO - likelihood) that Zach wasn't given a fair shake with things regarding MoS, BvS and Josstice League.

Batman Versus Superman - the ULTIMATE edition - offers a MUCH more complete story line than the BvS that is currently pushed out to the masses. Shame on DC / WB Media for that.

Zach Snyder's Justice League is MUCH MORE compelling than Josstice League - with MUCH BETTER story telling and character development - especially with Ray Fisher's Cyborg and Flash.







Aquaman and WW got their own movies and those movies did WELL, thankfully.

Going forward I "HOPE" that this merger (and the apparent letting go of certain "DC / WB Media Execs" ) means that Mr. Zach Snyder WILL get more Justice League movies and introduce MORE Justice League characters (I'd PERSONALLY love the final count to be more than a DOZEN).

WB / DC Media "CAN" create a storyline similar (and BETTER) than Marvels and simply build upon THIS guy:



No more Steppenwolf? No problem!

You have the Female Furies



Not pictured above is Guillotina (love that name, lol) and Bloody Mary.

You ALSO have Kalibak, Mantis and several OTHER Darkseid henchman, including Brimstone







And for DCUO such a story line would be AWESOME in that we haven't faced some of these character for a few years now in the game - not since HoP III I believe.......and getting NEW styles and bosses like these would be fun as well.

Don't EVER give up, DC / WB Media - you CAN create a MOVIE story line as good as if not BETTER than Marvel's.

NEVER EVER settle.

Ha ha in your fifties! Then you know the struggle all too well. Remember 1970s Spider-Man where he had a rope and net as web shooters? Hulk, Wonder Woman shows that honestly did great for what they had available but still pretty far from the comics of their day. I mean we’ve come along way from then. That’s why I’m much more forgiving of directors who make an effort to bring the comic straight to life with miner changes versus those that try to deconstruct every aspect just to make it viewable. And yeah critics always get it wrong, just look at rotten tomatoes they are always way off from the audience score. For some reason they think what the audience wants and what makes a good movie two separate things.

Age does matter, I’m in my forties and a lot of the directors are close to my age or a little older so they are making films based off of what they read and saw as kids. So their tastes are similar to my tastes. Snyder definitely like the same things as me growing up so a large part of his films feed that in me. It’s gonna be horrible when the Pokemon generation starts making films. I have no interest in that expanded universe.

Side note regarding Snyder’s take on female heroes. I agree with your take on a Sucker Punch, but I think his take on Wonder Woman and the Amazons where far superior to Marvels use of female characters. It took a good ten years before Marvel was able to cobble together anything worthwhile female wise and I still don’t think they have anything that matches up to Wonder Woman yet. Wanda is making good ground, black widow is starting over and the Captain Marvel character is essentially cursed. The writing of the female Captain Marvel in the comics was atrocious with almost nothing usable that empowers women. The movies have already started her off badly by having show up in End Game and tell everyone she’s the strongest and they suck compared to her. There is probably no quicker way to have an audience hate a character than having them follow a group of people through years of adventures then at their lowest point have an over powered hero show up and call them weak, having proven herself very little on her own. The audience is certainly going to identify with the character they’ve grown to love over this new one. Wonder Woman just humbly owns being a complete badass she never has to say it because she owns who she is she doesn’t have to sell it, if you don’t know it you’ll find out.

Just a thought that's been rattling around my head after re-reading this thread, mainly about film length.

There are exceptions in film where a grand story requires more time to tell. Some of the big epics from the past like Gone with the Wind or The Ten Commandments come right to mind like that. A more recent example for me would be Braveheart (I remember picking that up on video cassette, a two-tape set LOL). It's a large story and needs more time to be told. But a lot of those tend to be one-off/stand-alone stories.

For me, the rules tend to change a little when it comes to a film series. Since it's a series you can spread the story out more across the different films, and a shared film universe for me tends to follow those same rules. The only time you can get away going for a multi-hour epic is when you're capping off either the whole series or a significant story arc of the series.

Endgame I can give a pass in terms of length because it was the culmination of all the Marvel movies up to that point. Over twenty films brought to a head with involvement from characters across all those films. The Rise of Skywalker similarly was the capstone to the Skywalker Saga, and while it wasn't across as many films it was bringing a finish to a story that started decades ago. So both the number of films preceding a "finisher" film (for lack of a better term) and the amount of time taken (and the strength of the franchise over that timeframe) can give some leeway in a longer film in a film series.

Because of those reasons I can't really give anywhere near the same leeway to some of the recent DC films. They made one film in Man of Steel and then tried to ramp up to epic lengths almost immediately in their next two films, and that just comes across as jumping the gun. And regardless of the finished product, it's the same feeling I got when I saw that The Batman was going to be a three-hour long film. It's tough for me to feel they built up enough goodwill with solid-to-great films preceding their epic to be able to ask audiences to sit for films that long.

I was introduced to DC comics in general and Superman in particular through the George Reeves Superman which used to air in reruns on Saturday morning. The Shazam/Mighty Isis hour was also a mainstay on my Saturday mornings. I'm a bit jealous of kids growing up today who have these amazing movies to watch. There's a great word, verisimilitude, which means "feels real". It's easy to imbue a first time, but harder to recapture. One of the reasons Superman '78 is so beloved is that it was probably the first movie that made flying look and, cough, feel real.

I agree with you, and an important thing to remember, Gone with the wind was one of the best selling books of all time when the movie came out. Ten Commandments also had a large built in audience for obvious reasons. Both those movies had a high threshold to meet with those audiences, editing for brevity would have cost dearly.

There’s a saying in the Army that goes “We train to standard not to time” which means we train as long as it takes in order meet the standard. If training goes long or short it is not as important as long as the training has met the standard. I have the same approach to movies. I have a few examples of movies that struggled by being too short and others by being too long.

An example of a movie the was too long was the Hobbit or actually the entire trilogy. The entire series should have only been two movies but on top of that each movie was 3 hours long. They were trying to turn an adventure into an epic journey which made it very boring. I still have never tried to sit through any of those movies again because of the absurd runtimes.

Movies that got shortened at the expense of the movie, most notably Whedon's Justice League and the theatrical release of BvS. If you have not seen the BvS ultimate edition then you’re missing a few key points in the movie. Namely the ultimate edition helps the audience understand that the fight between Superman and Batman was completely orchestrated by Lex Luther. You can kind of assume that with the theatrical cut but it’s not so explicit. Justice League had to have a long runtime because it was introducing two new characters that did not have solo movies. This is why Cyborg was the backbone of the movie. I think any ensemble movie should be longer especially if you have new characters that need developing. Again this is where Whedon failed in Avengers by not developing Hawkeye at all. He should of had Hawkeye and Blackwidow go around bringing in the Avengers in order for more character development. Even with the Hawkeye series he is still one of the most underdeveloped characters in the entire MCU.

I don’t think Snyder’s Justice League should have hit theaters with a 4 hour runtime but I do think 3 hours is very acceptable for the scope of the movie. I mean a two hour runtime was a studio constraint to get people churned in and out of theaters as much as possible for profits not for story. I mean if I’m paying serious money to see a movie in theaters I definitely want to feel I’m getting my money’s worth. So I don’t mind sitting there for a long time as long as the movie is engaging. Often in good movies I look at the clock with relief that the movie isn’t almost over because I’m enjoying it so much. So yeah runtime doesn’t bother me as long as the journey is worthwhile.

Are you guys talking about Charlton Heston's Ten Commandments?

That guy was SENSATIONAL.....

I've had the fortune of looking at some of his older films (Major Dundee) and he has a style ALL HIS OWN.........



It's like he brought his OWN SWAG to everything lol.

Yeah he was one of the greats, another of that era, in fact he was in Ten Commandments was Yul Brynner. There aren't a lot of actors who dominate the screen like those two anymore. Daniel Day Lewis is one, Alan Rickman was another I'm struggling to come up with more, I'm sure you can think of some.