Might, Power and Support Oh My!

I actually would much rather have 2 trolls in raids. The problem is the 2nd troll ends up doing nothing but recharge. Ive done it. The only ability i used through the entire 2 raids as the 2nd troll was recharge. Thats incredibly boring. Idk when people are gonna start realizing the content//mechanics need to be better. Content that requires 2 troll or 2 heals and mechanics that involved the entire group working together. Until that happens this merry go round will never end.

Because the power stat by itself was a lot higher value. If I remember correctly, when they combined them the total power you could get from your skill points dropped by over half. The idea of adding power to the support stats was brought up but shot down. But trolls and healers would be a lot more efficient at their role if it scaled into higher values faster like it used to when they were separated.

Fair enough any ideas on what to change it too?

Or leave it how it is and increase base power stat on controller, healer and tank gear across the board

Any advantage it may give to a TROLL because "Oh hey look the DPS has more power and doesn't go straight from a full power bar to zero in 3 seconds" Is negated by the fact that if the Healer wants more power so they don't wind up with none try8ing to heal the team means .. They need to slot less SP in Resto. Actually same goes for the troll.... I have several and am already splitting SP between VIT to increase my power out potential and DOM to increase my ability to hold and stun. SO I am supposed to split off even more if I want some extra power for myself?

Here's an idea... Since we decided it was necessary to help the DPS by combining Might and Power. Why not do the exact same thing to help support.?.. So instead of just Resto we get Resto and power. VIT becomes VIT and Power to help the Troll. DOM becomes DOM and Power to help both the troll and the Tank.

That way we do not need to add an extra slot to the SP tree just for POWER and we are now helping every role available to play..not JUST the DPS.

I doubt that would fix it. People would still try to get more power because having more power makes things easier right now. What they should do is combine vit/power, dom/power, and resto/power in the stats tree.

So I've seen the combine Vit/Power, Resto/Power and Dom/Power suggestions a couple of times, not just here. If the Devs were to do that does anyone see a downside to that?

Something tells me all you want to do, is try to de-rail what people are saying is imbalanced on these forums with an insult. First off, you dont know me, but what Im posting on, is a horrible imbalance to a game I love, and right now want to barely log onto right now, because of these imbalances.

People game wide, and your probably one of them, considering your de-railing threads and insult, are using loopholes right now that allow them to use support roles along with the rediculously OP powers right now, to run battle supports. Its these people that every veteran player I know is looking at as the joke, and see as the imbalance.

We have a damage role. I dont care if support players do additional damage, but their damage capacity should never be on an equal level as the actual damage role that we have already in game. Thats not whats happening to our game right now.

What is happening right now, is Nature, Rage, and Earth are horribly imbalanced compared to other powers. Atomic and tank based shield powersare imbalanced in pvp from what Ive heard from many.

In pve, is there is nothing unique to a dps role right now, except for an initial 10% damage bonus increase. With such a very small incentive for the actual damage role, whats happening is players see that they can remain in support role stance, and get all the benefits of their own role, while spec'd and geared as dps. This gain of their support role's benefits, with only a 10% damage reduction, along with the powers that are over performing, most of them tank powers, which is why we are seeing most battle support roles in tank role, is a large imbalance to our game. These players have no intent on playing their actual support role, even in their support stance, because they are chasing the score card, and if you arent sick as hell of seeing a tank spec'd as dps spamming jackhammer with no intent on playing his support role as intended, than your probably one of the players running that garbage.


Healers recieve a 50% damage reduction when using powers that heal, and controllers, man, I cant even begin to tell you how many of my friends dont even want to even run the role right now, since its so messed up. you know why healers get that -50% damage reduction? Because they are a support role. Its to discourage or hinder battle healing some to Balance our roles. Notice I said "Some". They are not our damage dealing role, but its still a viable build available, BUT, there has to be some form of restriction as a trade-off. That restriction need to be applied to controllers and most certainly to tanks right now, or they need to adjust dps role specific max damage back to par again, or make crits mean more while in Damage Role.

I personally feel this role imbalance started with the dps clamps in place, along with the might and power stat being clumped together. Any role that spec's power just automatically gets a core dps stat for pretty much nothing. A good dps doesnt expect to get additional healing, defense, or power out when we spec for damage do they?

This garbage has imbalanced our roles. Our roles being imbalanced has made the game joke.

I want to see content reflect our stats, gear, and their appropriate Tiered levels. I want to see our powers on equal playing fields, and I most certainly want to see our Roles balanced a whole hell of a lot more than they are right now. There are 4 Roles. Not 3.

That's when having a "battle build" could be beneficial

People would then double dip. As power restored is % based off your maximum power pool.

PftT maxes out after roughly 230SP. They would then double dip in dom/power and the others increasing their max power pool thus increasing their dps. Spamming 300 base power cost could possibly be a thing at that point putting any other playstyle even more out of competitive range.

Separating the stat hurts the PftT playstyle. And adding power into all other trees helps the PftT playstyle so right now its a lose lose situation

So the only solutions would be complex is what you're saying. There would have to be role checks and stats added/removed based on the role a player is playing. Those used to exist, but did the developers leave them in place in case they needed to return?

Been playing this game 6 years, what nearly 7 years and I don't agree with you. I don't see "battle support" as a joke, I just see it as untenable in certain circumstances, which is not the same thing.

I think you'll find most support players actually have a "pure build" they can revert to when/if the need arises.


Your first statement contradicts your second statement, clearly you do care if support players are doing additional damage because your second statement shows a high level of care at the fact they're chasing the scorecard?

Why do you even care if they're chasing the scorecard?

If the support player is doing their job at the same time as chasing the scorecard why do you care? Are you upset that they are healing while at the same time keeping up with you? Are you upset that they are tanking while at the same time keeping up with you?

If they're keeping you alive and keeping the aggro off you or keeping power up what's the problem?

I think part of your problem Tarif, is that you're looking at the scoreboard and expecting to see millions of difference when that isn't the reality. You're not looking at overall percentages.

If for example the the "battle player" has 15,000 might and you have 17,500. If the support player is able to carry enough offensive moves it is possible they might do in the vicinity of 85% of your damage output.

So for every 1,000,000 damage out you do, the battle player may do 850,000.

Again your problem is that you're looking at the scoreboard with an "AM era" mentality and going "I demand I have 10mil out and that heathen battle player have something like 2mil".

Power imbalances are a completely different issue and something the developers need to look at, these power imbalances are present across the DPS spectrum and don't have anything to do with any perceived problem with battle support. Nature DPS for example is out performing most other DPS classes even when spec'd as a DPS.

Your statement that support players are getting the "full benefit of their support class" while doing battle support is not true. They are clearly sacrificing support stats and potentially even 'support powers' for example they may only be carrying 2 healing abilities and 4 offensive moves, but the 2 healing abilities are enough to keep the group alive and the 4 offensive moves are enough to do a reasonably substantial amount of damage.

So they're clearly not getting the "full benefit of either role" they're just choosing to sit somewhere in the middle when the situation allows for it.

Also the fact you're going on about a tank doing "jackhammer" repeatedly not doing their job actually exposes how little you know about tanking. Jackhammer is a move that performs a primary function of Earth Tanking so them spamming it is actually getting them a double benefit.

Again as long as that tank is keeping the hate off you and doing their "job" what has them doing damage got to do with anything?

Now with this comes the obvious caveat that maybe a power is over parsing and could be brought in to line but that doesn't mean an earth battle tank should stop necessarily spamming jackhammer as the actual theory behind what is being done here is not actually flawed.

I honestly think Tarif, you're having a little trouble letting go of the "AM era" and that's not intended to insult you and at no point have I insulted you. But you need to find a way to move on with the new stat revamp and perhaps try to understand what is actually going on here.

What if roles were not allowed to spec into certain stats?

Like dps not allowed resto, vit or Dom?
Troller not allowed Resto
Heal not allowed Vit or Dom
Tank not allowed Vit

(All of those might be terrible examples)

As I suggested in my other thread, i think weapon damage needs an increase across the board and hybrid focus support bonuses should be increased to at least 10% from the current 5%. Get the Vit, Resto, Dom bonuses up to a point that Hybrid focus is equally viable to speccing for power through Superpowered focus. That way it then becomes a choice of preference and playstyle as opposed to the current choice of whether or not to **** yourself if you don't choose superpowered.

There are other ways to approach this but they would be viewed as nerds to Superpowered focus and I rather think that Superpowered is balanced quite nicely at the moment.

G I M P

That's not how the game functions and go and read stats and you'll see how they flow across all roles, just because something isn't a "primary stat" doesn't mean it isn't a very useful "secondary stat"

Healing for example actually benefits from Resto and Dominance

Trolling Benefits from Vit, Dominance and Resto

Tanking can benefit from Dominance Resto and Health

DPS can benefit from Might, Precision, Health, Resto and Dominance (if they were to carry some shields)

In fact of course all roles benefit from health

This is part of the problem so many people are ignorant of what the stats do, they're ignorant of the benefits and they're ignorant as to how the game actually functions and why certain builds and certain stats can benefit in certain circumstances.

They think it's just a cookie cutter "one size fits all in all circumstances" not realising that entire mentality exposes their own casual misunderstood approach to the game.

it's because all they do is set might at max and go

I think you should re-read some of my post again, so you can see that one of my main complaints in this imbalance is that the majority of these players running this garbage, have no intent on playing their actual support role.

I didnt like the Am era. played well before it. I wanted our stats to matter, and had high hopes the revamp would better balance our game for the players that actually put the effort to progress and grow their characters with time, compared to those that have not. I assure you I dont have an AM mentality.

Now, reading what you have posted, I think half the things you are saying, come from your own mentality. You have the mentality of a good player, what a player should be doing in support role.

Unfortunately most players that are spamming this battle support loophole do not think like you are thinking. This has left our roles horribly imbalanced, and good players that are actually having fun with some of these builds YET still spec'd properly to run and fulfill their support duties arent seeing that they might just be a little super optimistic, in thinking just because they may be playing support as intended, that there isnt widespread amounts of players running these builds with no intent to actually help the group.

Because your thinking the way a good player running a battle support should, fulfilling their duties to the group in game, your not seeing the fact that most arent thinking that way. Without restrictions, its safe to say our damage roles should be providing power or healing on the same levels as a controller and healer while in dps role? Why not, controllers and tanks have the ability to be our damage dealers right now without penalty. Running in support role stance, spec'd and geared as dps, getting 90% of a dps damage out, with none of the dps clamps in place, yet with all of the advantages their support role provides. Just no. Hell no.

I knew they all flow across each other, except troll using resto that's new to me, it was just a example (terrible ones) off of what was said before. But I personally never seen or heard of a dps using the secondary stats, hence the thought.

You're right though, set all to might and charge!

you would need over 700 skill points to completely max out on power if it were added to three other support role stats (vit/power, resto/power, dom/power). we max out at 350ish and the stat cap goes up each new chapter a couple of points. a player who grinded out 275 skill points should be able to pack a little more energy. it wouldn't be the near infinite source of power that was AMs.

why did the dev team even bother to create three ways of playing dps if players are opting to "battle support" (which is really only currently limited to battle tanks.) and is achieved by using off role gear? its pretty standard in rpgs dating as far back as table top unadvanced dungeons and dragons that using abilities and weapons outside of your class carries with it penalties. this is done for balance.

otherwise all you have is a bunch of half orc fireball casting clerics wielding vorpal blades.

garbage players are garbage players irrespective of what you put in front of them. They'll be garbage DPS, they'll be garbage tank and they'll be garbage whatever.

That doesn't mean however, that you remove the "ability" for people to competently do something because some people out there don't get it and won't ever 'get it'.

You keep saying 'I wan't my stats to matter', "I want to see progress". I'm not sure you're quite seeing what that means in the new game environment.

I alluded to it in my previous post.

Let's for a moment ignore all power imbalances, they're not something we can control. Of one thing however I'm convinced of, if two people were to go the same power and use an exactly identical rotation. The stats matters you seek would be present.

Let's take for example two water players one has 15,000 might and you have 17,500 might, for every million damage out you do they'll only do 850,000. But how you're looking at this is your problem you're seeing the numbers and going 'omg that's nothing' but in reality it's exactly the 25% difference in your stats your seeking.

However, what I'm saying to you is; if a "battle support player" is compromising the group make up because they're not doing their role then that's the players fault and not the game.