I feel we are being Punished for Playing the Game!

ill say it again, a ilevel synced version will solve this problem, but time and time again people are against it because some of us only want to steamroll content while telling players who want to experience it in its prime are told to fk all. So here we are still dealing with a problem that has a solution nobody wants

I wasn't responding to you or I would have quoted you, I understand that's a different concept just like when you threw a shot at me in your video without actually wanting to name me.

What you don't understand is the bigger picture behind your reason for complaint. If the devs unlocked multiple tiered content to provide source marks they would have to adjust all the mark costs across the board to account for the increase in source marks available to us, as there is no realistic mark cap on source marks unlike MoV which had a low one in the past. So with all the prices going up you then have players who aren't able to commit the time resources to this game for the dozens of hours each week to run all the old content that you want to receive source marks from and then complain that it's too much of a grind and we're back to square one seeing the same threads just of a different nature. Everything major DCUO has done since 2014 is catering to the blatantly casual playerbase.

To touch on a point you actually said about finishing old style feats you will have noticed those costs have gone down DRASTICALLY so it is infinitely easier for any player now to earn enough marks to finish entire style sets or any reward related vendor feats just by playing a couple weeks of the new content whereas it would have taken them months of running that current episode to earn them.

If this concept is so troubling to you perhaps Pokemon Go would be more accommodating to you as you seemed to find much more success in that game.

For whatever it's worth, the reason I only addressed the nitpicking was time constraints. Needing sleep for work kinda took precedence over going into my thoughts on the entirety of your post, and since I can get wordy when I post (and take forever and a day to write to make sure my thoughts are as clear as possible) I decided to cut it short there.

Adding Marks back into old content isn't the answer. As frustrating as the current setup is for some, it'd be a poorer choice to basically make it so that players get fully rewarded (and encouraged as a result) for running old content they can basically sleepwalk through.

In the vast majority of games out there that utilize levels and methods of progression, players don't get full rewards for content they've moved beyond. Whether it was in SWG or single player RPGs, any NPC you face that's WAY below your level isn't going to give you jack squat in terms of XP or drops. Is it fun to go back and get revenge in spots that once gave you headaches? Absolutely! But all you're going to get for your efforts is that feeling of satisfaction as the NPCs melt just by looking at them cross-eyed.

Now, in our game? Marks kind of take the place of XP in how we progress after level 30, as Marks help enable us to get the gear we need to progress through the tiers. So once we move past a tier or piece of content, that particular source of progression dries up and we move on. Just like in other games.

In all the time players have been making complaint threads about Mark relevancy (a decently long time and a lot of threads) not one person has been able to put forth a compelling argument as to why they should get full credit and rewards for content they've moved well beyond. And the more these threads show up, whether the authors intend it or not, the more it ends up sounding like the people involved want full rewards for minimal effort, and that's just plain lazy. That impression can be reinforced when players recoil in horror and disgust at the idea of being stat clamped to the tier as an option for getting the full Marks they so desire.

Could things be done to help address players not revisiting old content? Sure, but most ideas are either extremely unpopular or would end up putting a constant burden on the dev team to keep revisiting old content, possibly at the expense of concentrating their efforts on new content. Adding in the potential problems that would come with removing Mark relevancy (extremely HIGH probability that all those price reductions for gear/Mainframes/etc. would go away to help deal with the influx of Marks) and I think there needs to be a little more thought put into solutions than just "Give us Marks!"

...

See why I waited to address that part? LOL

Depends on what you consider high level gear. If we mean the latest episodes then its not an issue considering they have their own currency. I feel that along as old content doesn't reward you with marks used at the latest episodes then its fine to obtain full marks in old content.

Does the old content reward Demohedron, Rath Crowns, or Titans Creds (relevant "endgame" currency)? If not then no we dont have a problem. Take away Mark Relevancy.

Im saying!!!

I remember the thread before catalyst were obtain by running content. If they can just convert the daily bonuses that the on-duty tab with stars next to them already have, and just have a randomized daily instance synced version on each play count category would be a good start. This would take away the repetitive grind of said player current tier. This should be an additional treat for bonus marks, not something that is detrimental. That way if said level sync instance ain't cutting it for a group, shouldn't even be a problem.

But idea like these like you said, whoever the shoe fits, certain individuals who don't want their "feeling of powerful" taking away from them but are the same people saying nobody runs lower tier content anyway.....................

I’m also coming back after a much needed break. You guys NEED a better solo player experience. There’s more wait time than play time and that hurts the game. Especially when you’re just waiting to enter a group of players that don’t communicate or use teamwork.

I can think of a lot of things I would change but I just want more time playing instead of more time waiting.

As already stated from another forumer, high level gear isn't even linked to Source Marks. So, how can THAT be the issue? The way I see it, what you can use Source Marks for as an end-game player wouldn't really give you an advantage were you to actually run older tier-stuff and get more marks out of it.

If making us able to earn more marks out of older content isn't possible, I'd like some other change that makes older content relevant for us to revisit again. I don't know why Catalyst caches became a thing rather than keeping the catalysts tied to the various tiers and instances as originally, but something in a similar fashion (not overdone) to breathe new life into older tiers would be welcome IMO.

So the only reason they shouldn't allow us to earn more Source marks through older content is because some older content wouldn't be a challenge to complete? Considering that no progression what so ever is to be found from an end-gamer going back and running it, i'd say that's a weak reason. Although, I kind of agree on the train of thought so how about they made a system based on the Tiers where the lower the tier the lower the marks. That way, you'd still be able run most Tier 8-Tier 9 content and still be properly rewarded as far as Source Marks go, and it would help populating the content atleast a bit.

In various MMO's you actually have various different crafting-systems that has end-game players running both old and new content to get the supplies needed for their actual, end-game crafting. This isn't news. We had something of similar fashion when catalysts dropped off various Tier before the just put it in the Constantine vendor as caches. Why they did that, I don't know. Something similar to that would be welcome IMO.

On that same note I don't see you putting fourth any more compelling argument as to why we shouldn't get full credit/rewards out of bought/owned pieces of content, considering the fact that there's actually no high-end gear progression to get from it.

Lol constant burden on the dev team.. Do you think it's less of a burden not getting new or returning players because the older tiers are a Ghost town? The reason it is, is because NEW content and content skipping is being prioritized and encouraged while nothing is being done about the older Tiers left in the dust. There's been several ideas regarding this, but it won't change unless any of those ideas are actually being picked up and worked on to solve the actual issue. And again, there's many different ways of which I gave you a few. It's not all JUST about the idea of full marks.

I've got to agree with what others have said here. The lower tier content doesn't grant end-game marks, so that argument is nullified.

But adding those marks in will encourage people to play the older content, if only to bump up their Source Marks for more catalyst purchases, and to help with some of those still-overpriced collection pieces in episodes like Riddled with Crime, Deluge, and Earth 3. Surely letting people grind lower level content instead of mid-level content to finish off those pieces doesn't really harm anyone, does it?

Sure... let's call them "Feat Marks".

So, we have marks for endgame gear. Marks for base upkeep add marks that can be earned no matter your CR to purchase style unlocks. People who started playing the game later or had to switch to PC because the PS3 got dropped / the decrease in loot drops have a much worse time getting styles than early players. Something needs to be done cause I used to get 200 SP quite a bit easier than now.

Old content might be "easier" in the sense that you won't die but it takes for ever since the Add / Boss health / cc resistance revamp. I used to go help lower CR people by queuing for old content but now that it takes about the same amount of time and I get styles at an infinitesimal rate... what's the point?

Or add style drops from lower adds instead of gear that can be salvaged for artifacts at the drop rate we used to have for gear (maybe a bit higher) maybe only for adds in instances vs open world. A third mark / vendor seems easier to implement but please... do something.

I think the main issue with Relevancy is the fact that it is restricting higher level. It also feels like a punishment considering that still high level content has it's own rewards. For a returning player this can be difficult. I see where you are coming from, you don't want new players jumping to end content by playing trivial content. But isn't that was the free events do with the scaling gear? There has also been very little in the way of helping returning players or players that have alts to alleviate the stress. Even the purchase CR tokens only take you so far and if you do that, you are now above certain CR and lose out of relevancy of content that you could enjoy.

Wait a sec... I just realized... "CR Relevancy is to stop new players jumping to end content" but they sell CR skips? I'm confused...

The highest level gear requires current DLC marks, not source marks, so that argument is invalid.

Mark rewards growing infinitely is also not quite true, as there are a limited number of hours in a day and only so much that people can possibly run.

So, the answer is "No, I don't find either aspect troubling or an issue."

I still think the best option is to remove relevancy for any old content and allow all players to get source marks from them, without increasing the prices of items purchased with source marks.
* People who run all the time are going to run all the time and get lots of source marks regardless of what you do.
* Casual players will benefit greatly from the removal of cr relevancy, as they will be able to run enough content to buy what they need with source marks.
* New players will benefit greatly from the removal of cr relevancy, as more people will be willing to play older content.

It really seems like a win-win-win all to me, so I'm not sure why the dev team is so resistant to it.

From them selling tokens or from my reasoning?

Selling tokens... your reasoning makes perfect sense.

Them restricting it would allow a new player to freely get to the CR the token is set to by just running trivial low level content and racking up marks and just buying higher and higher gear. But the fault in that reasoning is the gear you get from the free event DLC vendors and dropped gear. Which allows you to gain gear that can get you to the entry CR just by doing free content that is usually rather easy compared to the at level/elite versions of the content.

There's that too... I agree. I have a tier 6 farming alt and the hoops I have to jump through to not jump cr is a game all it's own. Try to stay at tier 3 to farm feats/marks better stay out of the vault.. the game propels you to no mans land late tier 7 early tier 8 where trying to queue is... well, you'll finish all your dailies before anything pops.... something needs to be done.

I'm pretty sure the population hasn't gone down much since stats revamp but for the life of me... I can't figure out what people are doing since instances never pop in lower tiers.

Not attempting to be disruptive or argumentitive Mepps, here are my thoughts to your statement


Statement #1: "Mark Relevancy exists so that very easy content isn't used to trivially obtain high level gear" Ummm, you cannot buy high level gear with source marks
Statement #1.5 "and so that mark rewards per day/week do not grow infinitely over time" Source marks? Who cares if they grow infinitely over time. You guys already SELL Skip to level XXX, these are used for general upkeep and really not much else.
Statement #2: Do you not find those two aspects troubling or an issue? Well if you don't find it troubling that most people I know like me (end gamers with a few alts) Log in...run dailies, log out and spend $$$ on different games simply because there is virtually NO REWARD for playing lower level stuff.

This also means that those people unfortunate enough to be stuck at those lower levels shout for hours on end to run something, eventually logging off and quitting Then NO, if you have no issue...then neither do I.

Statement #3 Do you have suggestions on what you would like to have changed?
I think you are seeing some of the suggestions being echoed in this thread.

Source marks are tied to every single gear style or vendor reward feat outside of cr relevancy. If a player is sitting on 2000 source marks etc and skipped the Teen Titans DLC for example that player can just breeze through every single vendor feat except for the elite set the very moment Creds becomes source marks.

Also the catalyst cache's are a major source of mark drain because it takes like 80+ catalysts to level a 0-160 artifact which is 800+ source marks which isn't easy to come by. Having that much extra source marks able to be earned completely changes artifact progression.

What I don't see people answering is if they allowed older tiers to be run for source marks and then DCUO turned around and increased all the costs to account for that how magically there won't be a ton of threads crying and complaining that all the costs went up? Just because a player could earn 1-5 source marks or whatever they changed it to wouldn't translate to the ques popping instantly because the sudden rush of all players wanting to run JFA and USR again. Players have the same reasons to run (ie gear for exobyte salvage and OP collection drops) as they do now as they did before mark relevancy.