DPS pet trinkets hierarchy...... go

So if you're a DPS, and something gives you more damage output, is that progress? Your goal as a dps is to do damage right? So anything that helps that is literally progress by definition.

Edit: to the other argument about whether SM vs regular rewards should be the same "tier", I would honestly argue that SM is, or should be, tied to progression. This is where the content with the highest difficulty and the most teamwork is. The stronger the content, the stronger we need to build our characters, and the stronger our rewards should be. There should be a lot more trinkets, pets, gear, etc in this game that not everyone would, or should, be able to earn.

Yes, specially for Source Shard users (yea we do exist, hello).

LOL, exactly the pets are entirely progression.

In terms of SM providing tangible progression, that goes against the premise of what SM has been to date and I feel like that would probably warrant a more meaningful wider discussion in a thread of its own

It also looks like there is a very narrow view towards the definition of progress, or progression, here by some. Progression comes in many forms. It could come in the form of extra stats, more abilities, knowledge, etc. And in this case, a characters progress should never be compared to anyone else's characters. Just because you get out DPSd in a raid, it has no bearing on the progression your character has made, or is making.

So when DCUO redoes the tutorial and they talk about countering, replacing gear for one with higher stat values, nth metal and artifacts, gaining skill points through feats at the end there should be some giant RED text saying "oh don't forget to pick up your closest damage pet trinket" because we all know that is just as important as everything else covered in the tutorial. God forbid a player doesn't have a damage pet trinket and are completely stagnating their character in DCUO.

Then when the new player says well geez there are sooo many options of pets, there are like 20 to choose from, we get to say guess what? we made them all the same for you so it doesn't even matter what you choose, here have all the best stuff for free cause you don't have to work for anything we'll just end up giving it for free or we'll complain until the free stuff is better.

Yeah I know what SM was meant to be, but Chill is right. Right or wrong, the SM bat from season 1 was purposely meant to put out higher DPS than any of its re skins in regular content. There are even a few forum posts from a green name in a couple threads here stating such. And to be doubly honest, lol, I really have no skin in this game haha. I most likely won't even get the pets. I just cant bring myself to slog through the higher levels lol. Im too lazy and unmotivated to do it lol

LOL dude. Progression is anything that a player feels brings them closer to THEIR OWN goals. If YOU don't think it helps YOU, then then that's great. I personally don't use the highest rated per myself. But if you don't believe higher DPS output helps, then why do you have 50 videos going through the damage output and ranking every single trinket in the game everytime a new one comes out? Must be important enough for you to go through all the trouble... Dont tell me it is for your Cosplaying needs

I've always been a fan of having layers in game mechanics or items to add variety and complexity. It just adds more fun to the game and makes things less boring. But not just arbitrarily doing so.

The story should serve as the blueprint for the meta and incorporated into the mechanics and meta. There should be story and story mission reasons on why the vendors for specific content have the best gear for that piece of content, why the bosses could have the best gear, or why certain pets are stronger then others. Deciding on one way or the other doesn't mean you can't occasionally mix it up and change it and then change it back to the baseline in future content. But again, through the story. Put the RPG back into MMORPG.

Also, if an actual more formal tier for pets ever gets introduced into the game, it should be shown on the pets themselves so that it is made clear for all players to understand which pet is which. That means putting colored rarity on the pet icons - green, blue, purple, orange whatever, just like the gear icons, and making it a thing.

I dont even know what you're on about in that last added paragraph. I agree with you, there should be tiers of stronger pets. I would go one further and say that the highest tier should even be unobtainable by more than half of the player base. If people want the good stuff, work for it. But this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they would be considered progression. The fact that there is even tiers implicates progression.

Pets trinkets are part of your gear so it's a progression i guess . Also I agree SM pets should do more damage in SM, and on par with another rare pets.

Progression is anything that provides any sum, no matter how negligible of benefit.

If that pet does damage then it is progression because it enhances the players end goal, which is completing content.

We can argue about how meaningful the progression is but not whether or not it's in fact progression.

If pets weren't progression then they wouldn't even be used at all, but look at all the people using them or in certain circumstances insisting people use turrets to burn through checks, no more or less so than the likes of orbitals.

With respect, Chill and I say that because I'm legitimately not trying to annoy you or anything but your logic appears faulty because the reasoning you appear to be using to disqualify pets as progression could equally apply to many other aspects of the game that provide potential damage output increase but aren't directly attributable to the player but could also be seen as entirely optional.

Do you know what actual progression would be in dcuo? what is the point of getting the best gear and OP items, 200 artifacts and skill points? to stand around in the watchtower? to sit in someones base and be in a custom chat? to run around open world and defeat Titanic Trenton? If you want to talk about "progression" it would be to progress to a point where you are able to run the content that DCUO offers, whether that be elite raids, dev sponsored events like the speed runs, instances like survival mode. You would actually progress to a point where you can earn those higher tier pet trinkets.

But instead what to we have? A group of people complaining until every pet, earned or even rare drops is just as strong as the free ones handed out by the game or from a mark vendor. How is that progression? that seems alot more like DIGRESSION

I would welcome you or someone else to explain to me how taking away any incentive to progress and development your character in a game to the point where you earn the highest rewards is "progression and positive development" yes lets nerf everything so its free so everything continues to be served on a sliver platter with a sliver spoon to each and every player because that is their goal of progression in dcuo?

k

Im not sure we're on the same page, probably not; and not purposefully by any means either..

1. I don't really have an issue with some pets being stronger than others, in fact i think that's a good idea.

2. I do think however top tier pets could be available in multiple places for example I think pets obtained in something like elite could be on par with SM as an example, that's just my preference, it may not be yours and I appreciate that.

However you seem to be arguing and perhaps I'm wrong and have misunderstood you that pets aren't progression at all, I just disagree with that aspect, not whether or not pets should be tiered.

Catch a Brainiac Drone in a PokeBall as you exit the ship.

I honestly haven't been following closely enough to say if you, specifically Proxy was against the Tier System which is what ive been tried to defend which by association is now the nonsensical a player in dcuo can't progress without a pet trinket. As for your 2) I would fully say any pet from elite would fall into the same category as SM. I talk about SM pets because its the only ones in Tier 1 at the moment but we are getting new pets all the time it's safe to say something besides henchmen could be added to elite. The drop ones like father/mother/DCB would have their own Tier 2 because you can farm that either daily or infinitely with no cost to you and then the bottom tier would be Free or Vendor ones that are accessible to anyone at anytime.

My specific point on progression is that you have to extremely warp ones perception of DCUO to include damage pet trinkets into the same category as SP/Gear/Artifacts/Augments if you took a poll on that subject to see if they would say a pet trinket means the same to players development or strength of a character you would LOSE HORRIBLY. This perception is found only happen magically on the forums where all these little movements happen that don't reflect anything to do with the game just because its the same 10-15 names you see talking all the time. People think the elitist's 0.1% are trying to dictate the flow of the game and now you all have nerfed every pet to the be the same so we have 20+ reskins of eachother

Yea, I totally get the desire for a tiered pet system and don't disagree with its intent and it appears we're in agreement about what falls where, loosely speaking.

I do agree free pets should be bleh, they're free and not earned.

In terms of progression, I think pets can probably fairly be bundled into trinkets in general, all trinkets in the game that directly affect output or stats in some regard are progress, what weighting a player puts on it in comparison is obviously debatable, but you're right that these would be stacked loosely by impact with trinkets obviously sitting further down the chain of progress than other elements you've highlighted, such as gear, artifacts etc.

The only concern I have with tiering pets is that at the end of the day elite players are very functional players, they use what they know they need to, too get content done, however, that doesn't mean they still don't desire cosmetics niceties, so it would kind of suck when a cool looking pet becomes less desirable because it's free tier but crap lol or perhaps the better phrase is "less good" lol.

But then again, you and I both know theres already a meta and despite it being aesthetically desirable to use the cool looking Paradox Gazer it's simply not practical and in some content we're going to have to swap in that Bat

Good chat, thanks.

This is exactly one of the reasons I'm against tiering the pets. What would even be the point of certain pet's existence if nobody uses it because it's bad? This ruins the character immersion when you care about your look or theme but also care min maxing performance. It just would be nice being able to choose without compromising.

The bragging right of owning certain rare pets can still exist without compromising the performance of all of them, is this not enough?

In an ideal world it's almost like you'd have a base trinket obtained from content with the higher base trinkets coming from top content and then you just open a tab and apply a cosmetic skin to the trinket.

I think the impact the cosmetic side has probably impacts people on different levels subjectively, some people care more about it than others for reasons including immersion as you cite, others could have a flying grey coloured orb and not care as long as it puts out the most Haha

Haha have at er boys. I still love you Chill. But you are taking this way too serious. Keep up the good work on YouTube though. It is appreciated

Why stop at pets why not make it so all dmg is the same no matter what power set. I like having something to work towards. Just like there is elite gear and reg gear. The tier system sounded great and made a lot of sense. Having all pets do the same dmg is just dumb. If that’s the case I’ll never have to switch my pets again. There’s to many players in this game wanting to be spoon fed. Go with the tier system and let the players who want better dmg chase the higher tier and the players that just want to play with styles instead of actually getting better at this game stick with the lower tiers. At some point the dev have to make decisions on this game that will make it better not easier.