DPS pet trinkets hierarchy...... go

Discussion in 'War Room (Powers, Artifacts, & Builds)' started by Qwantum Abyss, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    I think that everyone is very grateful to you for this level of communication, we really missed it;) I would give you 100 pluses, alas the forum does not allow this ...
  2. Whodini Well-Known Player

    I feel the same way. The vampire bat fits my character very well...but now it seems it's going be overshadaowed by "earned" pets. No sir...I don't like it.
    • Like x 2
  3. Proxystar #Perception

    I think it's a good idea for SM pets to do more damage within survival mode, I do not however, think it is a good idea for SM pets to do more damage outside of SM.

    If anything SM pets should be tiered the same as an ultra rare drop pet. SM has up until this point never been about any sort of progression, whether or not that forms a part of your character or an external factor contributing towards your characters performance.

    SM should always just be a bit of extra fun allowing elite players to test themselves with their friends and see how far they get, it should never be about star pointed feats or best trinkets, gear in slot etc.

    Cosmetic styles like abyssal horns, cosmetic orbitals, pets, materials and the like are more than enough to appeal to a persons need for skill distinction. - just my thoughts, directly for you.

    Also I think its important to be careful about tiered performance otherwise making all the cosmetic pets in the first place is simply pointless because players just won't use them :)
    • Like x 6
  4. Miike Fury Well-Known Player

    i dont see the problem with SM pets doing more damage than most.
    SM is playable by the community as a whole.
    granted, SM is usually for the elite of players.
    Usually the elite of players are the ones who care about the damage numbers anyways.
    So why does it matter to the rest if they do more damage or not?

    harder to achieve pets (SM) should be rewarded. i dont see the problem (even outside of SM)
    all other pets aside from those can do the same damage and just be a cosmetic choice.
    • Like x 1
  5. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    This is 100% going to be something that will never be acceptable to everyone no matter which way it goes. I like the idea, I also like the idea that they all do the same damage in non sm content so it's just a skin preference really. Being a source user, I won't use DBC anymore. (Had 3 drop in the 1st week btw and never saw one again) He has too much downtime so it's most likely that I'll miss the gw buff. Plus I hated how he looked for my sorcery toon. So count me as a non vote because I think it would be cool either way it goes now. So you'll have people on board, people not on board, and people swimming around the boat. Usual issue I guess. Soooo yeah... Good luck Charon haha
  6. Rejchadar Inquisitor

    I think SM pets do a little more damage in SM itself, and the same damage in non SM content is a good compromise.
    • Like x 2
  7. ObsidianChill Community "Trusted"

    Except for the fact that since May 2019 that is exactly how it worked, and every reskin that has come out from the Season 1 trinkets have done marginally less damage but now that a Green wants to quantify a trinket system for the top 10 pet trinkets out of the possible 40-50 it's now the worst thing to ever happen to DCUO in 2021? :rolleyes:

    There is a much stronger argument I could make that for a players immersion in their character in dcuo that the plethora of styles and cosmetic rewards included in Survival Mode limit a players progression in DCUO more than the completely ludicrous and laughable notion that a damage pet trinket impacts a players development. Would you like me to pass along the hundreds of comments I get asking how do I get the style my character wears? oh sorry you had to play in 2015-2016 so you will never in your life be able to have your character immersed as much as mine is. Where as trinkets released in the past that you saw everyone use like the single boo's are dwarfed in damage by any number of pet trinkets released in the past year.

    An outsider reading this thread would believe that the SM pets deal multiple X more average damage than the other trinkets. I'll remember that I can never be out dps'd in game by ANYONE unless they also own a Survival Mode pet because I am the strongest player I can possibly be with my Shadow Bat and any player with a Vampire or Seahorse stands absolutely no chance of out dpsing me because of their vastly inferior pet damage trinket :rolleyes:
    • Like x 2
  8. Proxystar #Perception

    You can pass on whatever feedback messages you think are relevant, that's entirely your prerogative.

    If any damage increase is largely negligible then I don't really care, it is however my preference that no pet ever be more powerful based on where it comes from or if it is, I think there should always be a few places the top tier pets come from.

    In terms of cosmetics, your comments about how much people might want those cosmetics is proof enough cosmetics alone are the only rewards needed within SM to make it appealing.

    I understand the SM pet is already incrementally better already, for the avoidance of doubt, it is my preference in any case that, that gap doesn't widen.
    • Like x 5
  9. SilkyPawz Bunny

    I think SM pets should do more damage in SM ONLY, other content should do relative damage with other pets. Sm has always been about bragging rights ect and the cosmetics and that's how I think it should stay.
    • Like x 6
  10. Kimone Luthor Genetech Clone

    Pretty much.

    We already have enough issues in-game where (between min/max building, Artifacts, and the shortening but still extant performance gap between Powersets) there are factors affecting player build:

    Having "forced scarcity" affect your (pure) cosmetics is fine because hey, if I wasn't at the concert, I didn't buy the t-shirt. Hell, I traded an OG Solar away back in the day because I wanted the Purple and Blue ones more. Do whatcha like - the sheer amount of Styles in game (that are STILL in-game) is absolutely astounding and there's always more on the way. If you want it to look a certain way, give it ten minutes - if it ain't out yet, it will be.

    Having it affect Feats is less fine, but still technically acceptable because of the multiple applicable workarounds.

    Feats are EVERYWHERE. I can grind all over the place for them; Style Feats are accessible, but not essential, as an avenue for character development. Forced Scarcity doesn't apply to PVP Feats, Raid Feats, Grind Feats, LPVE Feats - you get the idea. Since SP DOES matter now (and trust, it does - verifiably, even) this is an important and valid avenue for continued character development. And "not having one 3 point Feat from nine years ago" - while maybe not ideal? Still isn't breaking the bank.

    The other side of that particular coin is "I've been playing for about 8 years dead up now, I took a break for at *least* two contiguous years of that time, and I still have over 400 SP, which is a more-than-sufficient amount to make a character function correctly" - I had less than 250 when I got back last year. You can make up lost time pretty quickly.

    Having forced scarcity directly affect player performance is a hard "no" from me.

    I was one of the folks arguing for "best gear in Vendor" back in the day because there should always be a direct developmental avenue available. Someone with 4,000 Replay Badges and a League to run things dry Day One (while somewhat defeating the purpose of staged progression) doesn't matter to me as long as the old-fashioned "I saved my beans and bought my means" still works.

    These days, we handle that by having a top-end division between Vendor and Vendor Elite Gear: you wanna do the work? You get the nachos. Extra credit means extra toppings. But the avenue is still there.

    Having one thing from one time remain the "best in class" and never releasing it again (especially in a digital environment where the difference in availability is determined by switching a line of code) is kind of a BS move.

    It's an ESPECIALLY BS move in a situation where "Survival Mode Rewards will never affect in-game performance" was one of the primary, explicitly-stated caveats of Survival Mode. The rewards were meant to be for ****-talking points ONLY - literally cosmetic. Having them affect character output violates that caveat directly, let alone doing so and then removing the ability to ever get one again.

    Anyway, lunch is over, so is my post.
    • Like x 5
  11. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    So spare armory + Boo-tility Belt + Boo family is character progression?
  12. KN1TE Dedicated Player

    I like the vampire bat on my DARKN1TE toon and chose it over DCB. I have DCB on 2 alt.s. I just got DCBat to drop on my main, Knite, today. That's only the 2nd time in ~6 months. Current price in broker is $600 million. I'm gokng to hold on to it. I like the sea horse on my water toon. It's just better off having them look different, but do the same damage.
  13. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    Will the ability to switch between the AOE build and the single target build give you additional options? And a simple belt that will give access to 4 trinkets in place of one is progress or not?
    Don't confuse subjective feelings with objective realities. You may not feel any difference in the use of one or another pet, Op equipment, 10-20 (or even 100 SP), Soda and much more, but there will be an objective difference.
    You can artificially create a situation where the difference between 200 SP and 600 SP will not matter, but this does not mean that these 400 additional SP will not matter for your character's progress. You can also find yourself in a situation where many factors neutralize the difference between the "Shadow Bat" and the "Tiny Starro" ... and in a situation where one blow of the pet will save you from the wipe ...
    • Like x 3
  14. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    You didn't answer the question. Do you believe the advantage of using Boo-tility Belt, which is the strongest pet trinket in the game, is considered progression? And by extension the Halloween seasonal is more important than Survival Mode?
  15. ALB Dedicated Player

    You're comparing 4 trinkets to 1.
    It's not progression, to answer your question. When it was 1st released that way, it was a loss in dps because of the drop in CR. The CR change gave it a buff
  16. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    People are comparing trinkets to progression so I figured anything goes.

    I know that but does he know that?
  17. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    Didn't answer? Well, maybe I wrote everything too figuratively. Any thing that increases the strength of your character, or the ability of your character, is progress for your character. You subjectively may not think so, but objectively it is so (the point is not how small this bonus is, but what it is (in our case, it no, but some people want to be (and do not believe Obsidian that the Shadow Bat is better than any other pet (in particular other Bats), this topic has arisen more than once or twice, including a statement by Batuba- that the difference is visible from different testers, due to the element of randomness and the animation of attacks, and with a sufficiently large number of tests, pets will inflict the same damage on average).
    You, like Obsidian, use one apple and many oranges for comparison. One CM pet is an apple, and the armory, belt and 4 trinkets are oranges. But yes, each one is part of your character's progress.

    There are games where all progress is based only on levels and experience.
    There are games where only equipment.
    There are games where the progress system is very simple.
    There is where it is very difficult.
    In DCUO, progress of your character is due to the interaction of many subsystems: equipment, SP, levels, artifacts, mods, augmentation, trinkets, etc. Someone-based on their experience and stereotypes- may something mistakenly not be considered progress, but this does not cease to be progress in reality.
  18. Rejchadar Inquisitor



    Or perhaps your understanding of progress is too narrow?
  19. Rejchadar Inquisitor


    Sorry to be rude, but this part of your question is just silly.
    For whom is it more important? what is more important for? From what perspective is more important?
    In terms of developing the capabilities of your character? of course more important. There are additional SPs, and additional trinkets, and equipment that, depending on your CR, will give you additional CR and stats (you and Obsidian don't understand this either? Development of your character's progress starts from the first level and continues to this day).
  20. TheLorax 15000 Post Club

    That's not progression, that's defining a 'meta'. The pet trinket does not make you stronger. It assists you in whatever it's programmed to do but it in no way increases anything about your character.

    Progress by definition is advance or development toward a better, more complete, or more modern condition.

    Progression is experience (level 1-30), equipment (combat rating), and stats (skill points, mods, augments, artifacts, league proficiencies, mainframe boosts, etc). Those are what makes your character stronger, more better.
    We can't start listing trinkets, gimmicks and other situational things that don't have any real impact on our characters as 'progression'.