Battle Roles

I'm saving too. I use alphas because I'm a cheapskate xD


The only issues I have with Battle whatever are the ones that are not paying attention to the controllers, healer or tanks power. When I battle any role I always watch the other guys so I can adjust.

I battle heal, tank & controller all the time. I also have different armories so I can adjust my stats for other players too.

It's my case in point though, let's discuss it a bit further.

What were the other DPS? What power, What method? PFtT? Precision builds? My guess is PFtT (the reason I say this is because if they were precision builds also with venom wrist dispenser using Bow Flurry I'm confident you wouldn't have beat them) and this highlights the very imbalance I'm talking about, it also highlights the two broken weapons, one of which you're also using, bow to smokebomb. When the method in which you're going about to do damage is imbalanced when you can beat the other players, who are pure damage and you're in support role.

Again, I don't say this to diminish your ability, and I'm not calling you useless, but you yourself admit that the other players were actually pretty good. So tell me do you honestly think a tank should be capable of "out damaging" a damage dealer when that's not your role? Even as a battle tank your role isn't to win the damage scoreboard it's to assist with damage, correct? So if you're winning would you call that balance? What does that say about damage dealing then?

If that were the case, why don't we all go "tank" and do damage in tank role, it'd make us far less squishy in general? lol

Do you see the balance problems this creates? surely you do if we're being honest...

It's funny that you're actually using the very artifact I mentioned as being imbalanced before I even prompted you too right.

The reality is if you're going pure damage you're simply going to have greater damage stats than that of a "tank" who still has to compromise the stats to achieve the balance to "battle role" in the first place.

And if stats are supposed to matter, why aren't they?

They're not JUST THAT GOOD...

Because this is about mathematical stats. let's use hypotheticals for a moment.

If you have two equal players of equal skill, one is a battle tank using venom wrist dispenser and precision, the other is a PFtT damage dealer with a spec straight in to damage.

Who do you think would currently win in that scenario? Who do you think should win?

Win is probably the wrong word, but let's just call it "top the damage board".

I owe you an apology if you took it that way.

I was not taking it personal but attempting to have an open discussion with others with skill at running battle roles.

In my OP I obviously failed to asked those who are totally against others from interfering with others in their response because it should already have been well known that many dislike battle roles.

Because it is a thread open to all I had already imagine I would still get those who don't know how to run as a battle role to respond because of their personal view I obviously failed to respond in just.

My experience is some what the same,but usually it was done by the mere fact that support roles can enter ques easier so they join content and people jump to conclusions kinda like we all have done even in this thread.

2 players of equal skill?

Depends on content and level of both players as well as if 1 is using a lower alt, if neither know how to dps and type of adds in the content.

I never jump to conclusions when I see a battle player, but I will watch them closely and point out failures and to be honest they have to expect that because they're the ones testing the limits of the status quo.

That's why I'm trying to be as respectful as possible in this thread, I'm not trying to derail your discussion.

Well they wouldn't be 2 players of equal skill.

What the players have to have is equal skill points, generator mods etc. etc.

If one player then uses battle tank and precision etc and the other uses might PFtT and they both have relevant artifacts.

Should the battle tank beat the pure Might based PFtT player in terms of damage out?

I don't think you are.

Wait so now to be equal the SP matter?

Whatever happened to the whole SP don't equal skills thingy.

Besides I attemp to run the Stabilizer event daily and as a troll I can come in either on top or almost equal with damage.

And that is before I even remember I could have switched to a build I have with 2 pieces of DPS gear.

But it be to late.

The stabilizer event isn't a good comparison, it's like trying to benchmark damage in a duo, a clamped duo at that.

They're not a very good instance to reflect potential damage output and balance issues.

In terms of skill points, it's not about SP equal skill it's about parity in potential stats.

Obviously it's not fair to benchmark possible balance when comparing a 400SP player to a 200SP player, that's just pointless.

But if you have two identical skill point players and skill points is only one element of it and one is battle role and let's say they're both equally competent, would and should you expect the battle tank to beat the damage dealer in terms of damage output?

And in saying this at what point should a "lower DPS player" be expected to beat the battle tank when they might have better DPS stats than the battle tank because of their support compromise etc.

This might be a 240CR Battle tank gets out damaged by a 225CR DPS player.

that's the whole point of being a hybrid.

(a) you're compromising some of your tank stats to be the equivelent of a lower DPS, i.e. instead of being a 240pure tank I'm going to make myself a 225CR tank mixed with a 225CR DPS because I can afford to be, because I'm good enough to do it and it benefits the group.

but when this turns in to a I'm a 240CR Battle Tank and I'm acting like a 240CR pure tank while at the same time acting as a 240CR DPS in fact better than a 240CR DPS, that's no longer balanced; that's broken.

The game is not that hard.

I happen to also believe that we overlook a few details with how content is completed in the post revamp continuation of easy mode.

So do a group kick a 198 tank from zoo-r or would it matter that much more on stats sacrificed in battle role?

Do groups kick the solo heals or trolls because they are below 200 CR in endgame regular content because they are missing stats or do they run the content and complete it anyway.

I'm not quite sure, how anything you said, addressed anything I said lol

When compromising stats, do a group kick a lower level player because they are lower leveled or do they continue to run with the solo lower level player?

I don't think anyone would disagree that a 240CR tank will have more stats than a 190CR tank.

Yet your example is saying a 240CR tank is sacrificing stats just to run extra damage at the detriment of the team.

I am simply asking if the extra tanking stats all that necessary and would be missed by the group when the same group could use a tank below or at the minimum CR for the content (below referring to below 220CR).

My CR examples are just that, examples; don't read to much in to them in and of themselves.

This is about how something should be functioning, it's irrelevant whether a group does or doesn't kick a player, that has nothing at all to do with what I'm saying.

What I'm saying to you is that when you battle role you're compromising both stats either side from a pure sense. That's the whole point of what being a hybrid is about.

When you hybrid or "battle role" as people put it, it's about compromising the perfect position to sit between and sit more central within the spectrum between what a pure tank would be doing and what a pure dps would be doing.

If a CR240 tank or a CR190 tank or a CR67 tank can DPS to the equivelent of a CR240, CR190, CR67 pure DPS while they are doing Battle support then that is broken.

Why should a pure DPS with pure damage stats be getting out-classed by a tank who cannot possibly have the same damage stats? Stats are supposed to matter, are they not?

Is what I'm saying being mis-interpreted somehow?

No it is not.

The subject is I would think and I can kinda see why is not about being equal to DPS number damage.

No support players should be equal to other support player inrespect of their role.

It somehow became about attempting to put out DPS type numbers in a support stance by morphing the word hybrid to mean DPS.

To answer your question again no DPS should be beaten by other roles.

Now, should a Tank, healer, or troll be out damaged by each other. The people I run with we do.

I don't believe you have to have the maximum amount of stats to run any content and I have to believe most don't either outside of those who actually need to shout their CR, SP and power to get a group to beat content.

It sounds like we're on the same wave length then.

Yea this is more from an overall balance perspective rather than is content in game being completed or not under the current system.

Hybrid roles could legitimately compete against each other to see who can do the best damage, for sure absolutely.

But somehow hybrid has turned into something it shouldn't be for some people, being; I want to out DPS, DPS players with my battle support to prove how much of a DPS beast I am, it simply shouldn't be mathematically possible when both players are on parity, it shouldn't even be close.

Oh Proxy, its just for fun . Im not trying to get my head wrapped around it lol. Yes, I do believe that the artifact and the 2 weapon combos are a bit unbalanced, but for now, like I said, Its a challenge, and I enjoy that challenge. If its there for me to use, and I have the ability to use it right , Im going all in

Haha more than anything I appreciate the honesty that you're admitting there's a balance issue. I don't blame you for playing the game the way it's put in front of you, balance issues sit with the developers, not the players

He wasn't even buffed up or using his try hard build is the sad part...

There are a ton of factors that go into comparing any two real life players, and quite honestly, no two real life players are ever going to be exactly the same in terms of skill points, mods, artifacts, weapon selection, power types, rotations, etc.

I can say in battle stance, wearing all dps gear with all might dps mods, a player can put up dps like numbers.

Now you may say their is no way they can perform their support duties, and admiringly you would be correct in that those support duties could be compromised to a varying degree depending on the difficulty of the content; one may still be able to perform those duties well enough to complete the instance without issue.

For example, I know for a fact, in battle troll stance, playing with this gear setup, using supply drops and group shields to help with overall power supply when it runs low, you most certainly can complete and compete in most alerts without being a detriment to you team.