Battle Roles

Depends. My main is atomic and love to battle tank. I always play outside the norm, but do make sure my actual role is done correctly. How atomic works, I don't have to spec like a fire tank for healing. It's all based off health and dom which our gear gives more than enough of both. I don't run in dps gear, at all. Years back I would, but it's no longer needed. My damage is rarely 1st, only because atomic is not able to put out the same damage as earth battle tanking. I've tried, many, many, many times and different loadouts.

Not sure if you've ever dps'd with atomic. There are not a lot of options. There's melee and ranged. Both are limited. Atomics powers, imo should hit harder. Not a lot, but closer to muntions type damage. Neither power has a very good dot, but the damage from muntions is so much better than atomics.

So my answer to your question is still it depends on the power, how aggressive both players are, etc. everyone plays differently.

I also think it's not a good thing to look at the dps boards and say there is a winner. Honestly, since I've been back, there are no dps winners. There are tanks, trolls, and heals that have to carry, pick up, and power a lot of very bad players trying to play as a dps. If we keep looking at the scoreboard and thinking there are winners and losers, we will eventually start asking for raids that require no off roles and to put roleless buffs into raids. I changed to a tank back in December because I didn't want to worry about being the top dps. Finishing content quickly is the only thing I'm worried about.

Lol, I think the same thing about most dps. None are needed.

Our current meta 1 tank, 1 troll, 1 heal, 2 or 3 good dps and 2 or 3 bad dps.

My perfect world, no dps, all battle roles.

At least some dps would be needed. In theory, dps role and dps gear and dps mods will always do more than a hybrid. You've been running with dps' that cant push the barrier if you really think you're better off with no dps.

I know what you're saying, though, its fun to push the limit and try new role combinations whether it be all healers etc or whatever

Had the opportunity early this morning to try it out in UM elite had 1, 125CR healer; 1, 125CR DPS; 2, 240 players, 1 DPS the other Tank; 2, 236CR players 1 DPS the other healer; 1 DPS 122CR.

With my CR being 231, I find that to keep a 240CR power up to always be challenging, yet very doable with your layout, it will definitely work.

There is a downside but that is to be expected due to the loss with CC. I can see why it would do exactly what I was looking for.

I would honestly expect this to be the norm I only ran into power problems with myself when missing the rotation and even then it wasn't a make or break situation.

I will definitely keep working with it but I may add a CC debuff here as there when the group run into problems.

Thanks again Mazah.

Why would your preference be all battle roles vs all those in dps stance playing to the max of their role? Since we are talking about dream scenarios lol. I know most dps are unskilled. But if you have a team of skilled dps supported by their support roled teammates you will definitely clear content faster than having all battle roles.

Glad it helped

Lol, I get ya. Unfortunately, as the tank usually, I see a lot of skilled dps turn into poop dps from being to cocky and trying to best the next guy. Not sure what your definition of a skilled dps is. Mine is one that knows his place. The being first in dps, in pug groups, was fun. Mostly it was against friends, but again. As good as we are, look like noobs sometimes trying to one up each other. I haven't played in a "good" league in years. Most my boys retired to better games. My view of dpsing isn't the norm, I know. But that's my view. I'm tired of the dps race. I'm tired of being told roles are supposed to play a certain way so dps can do what ever the "F" they want. So yes, my perfect world would be a group of totally self reliant players. Maybe my way of thinking is to advanced for this game anymore. I've done the dps race for seven years now. Kind of over it.

I'm ready for this game to stop adding crap to try and balance dps. Just stop. It's been a year, and I'm losing interest day by day. Remove all restrictions from roles. Instead of juggles or whatever some powers do. Let them work how they should. Most healer powers are about the same as dps powers. Let's stop separating them. Tanks can already run as a dps in tank gear and be just fine. Trolls aren't to far off, if enough SP.

So yes, I would rather have a group of knowledgeable battle role players than a group of arrogant buttheads trying to one up each other.

Yes there are a tonne of factors that go into comparing two real life players none of which have anything to do with determining balance.

Balance is about looking at the hypothetical potential outputs of something and achieving parity in output and ability.

Once the potential outputs are at parity those individual factors you speak of will create the variance you're also discussing.

When balancing something though you should be going along the lines of.

400sp water player with xyz genmods etc gives out 15k dmg p.s
400sp nature player with xyz gen mods etc gives out 15k dmg p.s
400sp weapon player with xyz gen mods etc gives out 15k dmg p.s

300sp player with xyz mods has 25% less stats than above so gives out 15k dmg p.s less 25%

If you then battle role and reduce your damage stats by 25% to allow an increase in support stats to allow you to tank then you should be doing 25% less damage at the theoretical level.

So when you see a battle player you obviously have to look at yourself and them and consider if you're on parity.

So if say for example both players have 120 artifacts 400sp gen mods etc and the battle tank player then beats the pure dps in those circumstances then the system is broken.

The reason it is broken is because the 25% extra damage stats the pure dps player has obviously aren't mattering, so the question inherently becomes why?

And the first place to start looking imo is broken weapons, broken powers or broken artifacts.

I am confident that the venom wrist dispenser is currently broken because its exacerbated damage output on two weapons that were already hitting too heavy compared to other stuff in the game and the % increase on the precision appears to have been just chucked in there with very little thought in terms of balance or impact.

I don't have a problem with battle rolling if it's done correctly I do have a problem with balance though see my post above.