DPS pet trinkets hierarchy...... go

I hear ya. Popped my 1st feat in 2012. Was quite the different game back then. I also stayed away from the forum till about a year ago so I get that. Being on this forum has taught me some stuff for sure. First, the burners are far far outnumbered by stylists. So while they have a calm, collected, mostly agreeable crowd, the burners have the trash talking, constantly arguing, never agreeing bunch. Only more confrontational group being PVPers. By now we've all noticed that the devs have straight checked out of this thread I'm sure. Because burners are well onto being the next PVPers because no one is deciding on anything/ coming to an agreement and that's the exact reasons given for not touching pvp anymore.

The stylists will literally throw money at devs for a slightly different color chroma than the last. Burners want everything for free. More this more that. Do this do that posts constantly. This post is the epitome of why burners don't get what they want. Because we will have the same argument over and over for pages and never come to a middle ground.

Stagnant by whose definition, yours, yours and your immediate friend? Yours and people you talked to in passing?

You need to relax a little more, people aren't in this thread trying to hold back the game, they're discussing the topic at hand because that's the purpose of a discussion forum and that's what's happening and not everyone is going to agree.

Most of us here loosely agree on certain aspects and disagree to various extents in others, none of which is attempting to hold the game back because they choose to express a preference or view.

As players, we're all entitled to express a view, a priveledge we all hold in a free society, freedom to express ideas helps people reach the right conclusion, we might subjectively find some ideas terrible, but it is never terrible to discuss them.

Also the only people that find the forum toxic are those people that errantly can't stand having a debate with someone else about something, all they were hoping for was an echo chamber and when that's not what they get the run away screaming this place it's toxic because they don't all think identically like me

I know i said i was bowing out, but im still trying to find all these posts in this thread where people are demanding everything be the same and everything be handed to them for free. I know I've probably been one of the loudest against these types since I've been on this forum. But like stroke said, this game is more focused on cosplay now. Not much left for us older players who actually want real engaging gameplay and to earn rewards through that gameplay. Instead it is just time capsules and booster bundles etc

And to the progression part, they basically do tell you about your pets when you learn about your base generator. That whole thing where you use source marks to level up your mods, backup, orbital, pets, sure looks like a progression system to me

Pet trinkets weren't apart of the generator mod that is henchmen and sidekicks, which cannot be included with pet trinkets because a) their cooldowns are vastly different, and their damage is vastly different. If you don't pay your generator upkeep you can still use a pet trinket perfectly fine, it would be the henchmen and sidekick that are impacted.

A "Progression" system for pet trinkets would be: Player A starts with a Boo trinket, then once you reach CR X you can have a Brainiac Drone Trinket then once player further CR X they can have a Dark Construct Bat and then once player reaches Max CR they can have a Survival Mode pet. That isn't how the game even remotely works obviously (not directing this at you just a general statement to your response) You can be a freshly turned level 30 on an alt and go to your bank and pick up any pet like mother/father box, DCB whatever binds with equipped then that fresh level 30 could use vampire or whatever he has access to. I'm am still not sure how anyone can say specifically pet trinkets are progression or apart of development. We all know what makes pet trinkets stronger CR levels, and what makes our CR levels go up? imagine that Elite gear and OP items which is the actual progression and development in game. Pets are simply a by-product add on in the game.

Is not obtaining the pet irrespective of method though not progress to the player? Forget the pet itself, from the perspective of the player having something regardless of source where previously there was nothing could be construed progress to the player.

If before they didn't have a pet they got 0 damage, they then equip a pet and gain 100k damage, that's direct progress to the player in arguably the same way putting on a new set of gear increased their damage output.

Equally so getting more pets could be progress if those pets provide you a circumstantial benefit, such as say a pet turret being more useful for quick burst.

I honestly can't see how you don't consider pet trinkets and their acquistion, player progression, the only way they're not progression is if you believe pet trinkets in all circumstances are objectively worthless and if that's what you think, any change to their system is fundamentally irrelevant and none of us should care because we wouldn't even carry them?

Now I'm going off the assumption that you meant the pet did 100k damage and we are reading these numbers from a scoreboard/parser so correct me if I misread the statement.

If before they didn't have a pet they got 0 damage is not a realistic scenario unless said player is simply standing there or intentionally not participating. If they then equip a pet and gain 100k damage that is not direct progress. The pet did not increase the player's damage in anyway, the pet acted on it's programming and the damage it dealt is added to the player's tally. Imagine if the devs changed it where damage from pets was completely invisible would any of us be having this argument? I think people are confusing player progression with current metas and they are not the same thing.

The only way I would consider a trinket pet as player progression is if it pushed a character forward in terms of something we can actually measure as character progression: combat rating, stats, etc.

I’ve honestly heard it all, I really just read someone say the game is more about Cosplay then Content. You have to be trolling if you think a action mmo is more about cosplay then content that right there is part of the main reason dc is how it is if they take this simple debate and use it as actual data theirs a huge issue. Cosplay is fine in games but if a dev straight factors cosplay into combat then theirs a issue.

I see, there in lies the difference, that's fine I understand your perspective then.

I don't so distinctly seperate a pet from a player in terms of output and ability, realistically that's simply a difference in opinion.

When I say 0, what i realistically mean is 100k less than before, Sorry I did not mean to imply a player was doing nothing.

Theres two ways we can look at it from a scoreboard perspective too if course, the fact the damage is attributed to the player in the first place could indicate the devs intend it to be percieved as player progress alternatively, it could also be that the devs simply can't be bothered making a pet damage category on the scorecard

In my view though pets aren't quite the automation though you assert, there's an element of player knowledge required in making an active decision surrounding what pet to use, when to use it, why you're using it that is similar to using circumstantial artifacts and the like.

The act of gaining the pet for a fore thought purpose where it didn't exist beforehand furthers a player towards an end goal of completing said content; I consider that to be player progress, because it's progress towards your end goal and in fact progress more widely in a player's goal of becoming generally more adept in their role.

If I put it this way, if your goal was to beat a piece of content and within that piece of content there is a boss that has a burn check you want to burn through within 5 seconds, do you take the player, with or without a turret?

You take the player with the turret right, so by all intents and purposes that player with the turret has progressed in potential past the turretless player simply by owning the pet.

I appreciate your response though, thanks.

I honestly don't get you pets and extra rare items are in every mmo basically as well as items where some are better then others based on how hard it is to obtain them what exactly is your issue?

This entire thread basically says every power should do the same damage and I want to use the powers that look cooler, yall are passing down a bad idea that everything should be the same just cause you want to cosplay, that idea doesn't even sound right. Cosplay in games is fine I flat out never seen one where it out values actually combat system. We have players in here passing pet dps as a viable competitive play style as opposed to playing a normal might or prec dps. The moment you go the cosplay route your bypassing competitiveness, so why does some pets being stronger matter?

Perhaps first try reading the conversation, None of what you've said here was even a discussion point.

Kinda hard when your riding a fence.

Lol wut...

We were talking about whether or not pets were considered progress or not, not whether or not the best pets should come from elite or not...

Well, that escalated slowly and painfully over a few days.

I've read all the positions in this thread and have had conversations with others in and out of work. I do think there needs to be a Tier system and have been working on what that would look like, trying to keep the concerns in mind on both sides of the fence. While the system has yet to be approved, initial feedback internally has been positive and I am hopeful that I can do the work, if even as a pet project of mine. The system calls for Elite and SM to get top Tier pets and for existing pet skins to be upgraded into top Tiers if the proper steps are taken. It will incorporate new methods of obtaining pets in the future that correspond Tiers with Difficulty Modes.

It is unlikely a system that covers all of that will be achievable before the pet balance can occur but the pet balance needs to happen so Tiers can be easily achieved now. What will hold true is that pets earned in SM or in Elite content before this system takes place, will retroactively become top Tier pets so if you like what you see out there, get it (looking at you, Survival Mode). Again, existing pet skins out there will get retroactively Tiered and all Tiers will be achievable for those skins. So those seahorses, boxes, bats, can all become top Tier.

Truly exciting news hopefully it’s approved can’t wait to start working towards these things.

When you say all can become top tier, are you saying there will be multiple versions of each pet?

In this not yet approved, vaporware system - yes. That's what I'm saying. I'll not delve much further into details until things become more solidified, however.

Thank you, Charon! Pets obtained through sm and elite are automatically top tier. Other pets can be brought up to top tier by taking certain steps. I believe this is 100% fair to elite and casual players.

Thanks alleviates the cosmetic concerns then, appreciate the response.

Im not sure thats what he means, I think all skins can be obtained in higher tiers in elite and sm. not through certain steps taken. But it's worded iffy so idk.