DPS pet trinkets hierarchy...... go

Then state that proxy cause that’s a complete contradiction to what you said earlier, your with some pets being stronger then stand by that. Right now what dc is doing is focusing way to hard to make everyone equal. Lowering the goal so anyone can dunk never works in mmos. Elite content should offer a pet tier and sm of it’s the hardest content should have the rarest pets. That would give players reasons to run and get better.

I’m glad your voicing this it’s dc issue everyone wants everything free. It’s shameful that attitude is only on this form and in game players actually want things to work towards and harder content.

I appreciate that my previous statement wasn't particularly clear, so to clarify my position and thought process.

TL;DR I don't object to a tiered pet system in terms of their potential damage output.

I do however have concerns that introducing a tiered pet system, despite it seeming like an inevitability given Charon's post will lead to people casting aside cosmetically desirable pets in favor of better performing pets, I think this impacts overall player experience in terms of immersion and satisfaction with being able to use whatever pet you like.

I think the reason people are concerned about the tier system stems largely from that concern, they want to be able to use whatever pet provides them with the most subjective personal pleasure and not be forced in to say using something they don't like because the need necessitates it.

In saying that I think most elite players would already acknowledge that the required meta making content easier to complete already necessitates an undesirable level of compliance with having load outs we'd rather not, artifacts we'd rather not and subsequently pets we'd rather not; so despite my position being that it would probably be my "preference" not to have a tiered system for pet damage for those reasons I accept the reality that people want to be and rightfully should be appropriately rewarded with something for completing content of the highest difficulty, thus arriving at my inevitable position of not objecting to the tiered system.

So despite the fact I would prefer pets possibly be more equal across the board regrdless of origin, one has to accept the position that the fairer outcome is that pets to some extent should be tiered, hence my thought process leading to the conclusion that I don't object to a tiered pet system.

Chill is correct, that arguing against players getting a reward that reflects the difficulty of their achievement is untenable and taking such a position would be silly.

It is unreasonable to argue that a player be handed a pet of equal potential than that of a player who earned it through, a rare loot drop, vendor, SM, elite, so forth and so forth. tiering the pets is therefore not unreasonable.

However, in saying that it's also not reasonable to stack all the "cool looking" pets in SM and elite, that is disengaging to the wider community so there has to be a balance between putting appealing pets in any given category, which subsequently creates a potential conflict within a player who wants to balance using something for cosmetic reasons vs. using something to obtain maximum benefit and admittedly sometimes you just bite your tongue and use something you don't want too for the sake of the task at hand.

For that reason, I do not want to see huge discrepancies between the tiers because only having a small differences alleviates, at least somewhat, the concerns surrounding a player wanting to use something regardless of output because you subjectively enjoy its cosmetics, at the end of the day we all want to enjoy what we're playing with

if we've got 3 tiers for example (and I admit I'm just picking arbitrary numbers here) perhaps vendor pets would have say 5% more output than free, rare drop 5% more than vendor and elite and SM 5% more than rare drop, meaning a SM pet would have 15% more output than free, if a free pet gave out 100k damage then the SM pet would give out 115,000.

I'm sure Charon is obviously working on the numbers and that's where the debate probably really is, how much difference is the acceptable level between the pet tiers I guess, hopefully this helps you understand my thought process, any questions about it let me know

We already have (and have had) a tiered pet system... the tiers just haven't been well defined and top-tier pets do waaaaay more than bottom tier pets right now to the tune of differences of over 50%.

If this hadn't been mentioned, the overwhelming majority of players discussing this wouldn't have noticed or cared aside from the fact there would be additional options on par with one another.

Lets just gut the whole pet trinket system and do this.........
Give a permanent slot (like an augment or artifact slot) for a pet trinket. Make all identical stat wise. Have a tab for the various cosmetic choices we have found. Pets can just auto summon on a timer and call it a day
To add to this i say get rid of henchman too for screen clutter purposes, take them completely out of the game an apply the skins to your sidekick. We call the sidekick when we want, the pets auto call on a timer. The skins for the sidekick also have a tab to select cosmetics an bam. Buff the sidekick to make it semi-functional an call it day on that as well lol

A lot has been written here for the whole day, so I use your post as a platform for answering for everyone (so if someone is waiting for a personal answer, it will not be, especially those "jokers" who could not find answers to their supposedly "witty" questions, despite the fact that they have long been in this thread).

I fully understand your desire to have at least something that can only be obtained by playing and investing adequate efforts and not just by opening a wallet. Yes, at the moment, SP have lost their weight, elite equipment is ********, if it can be obtained without ever advancing beyond the first boss in a raid (or beyond a card game that can be played solo ...) ... and artifacts can be pumped to 200 level without leaving the police station, just opening the wallet. I would support the idea of ​​tier, if not for two points.
The first is that SM has always been positioned as something that is meant to be challenged, for prestige, for unique cosmetics and unique titles, and that it does not even have a microscopic particle that affects the capabilities of your character (well, let's end this charade, you and I perfectly understand that whatever this difference is minimal, but mathematically it is).
Do you know? I agree even here to compromise. As I said myself, times are changing, you can change the concept of SM. But the second point for me kills the idea at the root.
The second point is what we have now, we already have a tier system, even much worse ... the essence of the problem is that you have to choose either the pet that you like visually or the pet that is the strongest, and this for many ( including me) spoils the immersion in the game, spoils the enjoyment of the game, spoils the enjoyment of a well-designed character concept.
Let me give you an example.
The concept of your character is an "ancient necromancer" who commands the undead. You chose the "sorcerer" powerset, you leveled your Shard artifact to level 200, you beat Necron to death with a stool every week (hmmm ... Necron to death? But oh well ...) in order to get "Death Vest", you sold your soul to the devil for an accessory of flying skulls (to get 2 duplicates from the new TC a couple of weeks later ...), you put on your favorite haunted aura, you have a magnificent pet "vampire bat" ... and a month later your pet became third-rate, and the most powerful pet is a glamorous train from the new SM ... And now you are a dark ancient necromancer ... with a glamorous train ... you even tried to overcome your disgust and just pretend that the train is not here ... but you don't have that, it will not work, because during the attack the train emits the sounds "chug, chug ... chug, chug" .... you have almost forgotten about the train... but that again "chug, chug ... chug, chug" ....

Honestly using the entire style cosplay excuse is horrible especially when every serious player on this game uses robot sidekick and most dps have grim leveled. The best options will always be used, if a player wants to cosplay in a mmo they normally do it at their own expense. Cosplay should never come as a detriment to end game. You want to use a cool looking pet to cosplay as a intergalactic power ranger that's fine but don't hinder those of us that want to actually earn end game rarer tier items that we don't have to buy that's one major element missing from Dc that should be addressed. Stop lowering the goal so everyone can get every single thing on the game let players earn stuff.

sorry Rej I get you man I really do but cosplay should never come at the expense of end game in a mmo. Achieving rare items in mmos is a main feature in pretty much every single one of them. If you want to be a dead summoning knight it should be your right but flat out it shouldn't come at to expense of a normal tier system that other games already have some things normally are better no matter how they look.

Well, firstly, cosmetics is one of the main (not the only one, there are, for example, such things as artifacts ...) income for games with an F2P element, so you bite the hand that feeds you (there will be no income, and next time we there will be even less content than LLL).
Secondly, your "solution" simply transfers the dissatisfaction of one group to another group. You solve one problem and create another. So your solution is far from good ...

Well i'm feeling pretty good today so i'm going give you a history lesson in the hand that feeds you with Dc. Dc has lost far more players from the neglection of PvP, dumbing things down to make everyone equal and not giving its actual player base harder content and reasons to stay playing the game for long periods of time. You can keep thinking the actual player base cares about a new cap style then actually having things to strive for though. Being able to play dress up and pretend in mmos is always a bonus it's what actually keeps a player base strong its actual content, direction and a end goal. Eso "master weapons, Trial gear, Maestrom gear, FFXIV "Relic weapons, mystic weapons, Rare mounts and styles given only through the hardest content in the game. World of warcraft same thing see a trend? prolly don't cause your to busy trying to fit your dress up agenda to actually care about the long term being of the game.

Okay, let's lay out the statistics on which you base your statements. Let's get the numbers. If you don't have them, then I'm sorry, but these are just your fantasies about what is successful in MMOs and what is not (and for God's sake, stop comparing oranges to apples, your list of games contains a bunch of different game models (F2P, Subscriber, P2P, Hybrid models ....)).

Your mindset and those alike are what keep the actually keep a large majority of the player base off this game and have for years wanting everything handed out, everyone the same, the game being a cosplay what’s worse is the devs for years have believed this mindset is what the players want and why the game is in its state. And it’s no apple to oranges it’s what’s worked for years in mmos you want to be successful look at the mmos that’s thriving are you could simply go back to when dc was at its peak and ask yourself what changed..

I can Guarantee you very few mmo players will leave a game because a cape is to short or they can’t pretend to be a Nero in a game that has no real pet mechanics but your forcing it upon the forums and assisting in holding the game back. People will and have left how ever with the continuing of lowering to rim so everyone can dunk. That’s all I’ll say on the topic hopefully the Devs stick with this amazing idea if not it wouldn’t be surprising as they carter to the forums very small casual player base.

This is true, but when you start making more clearly defined boundaries people are naturally going to start thinking about things more

Proxy as a vet what exactly does that tell you.

It tells me that you help fix injured animals for a living, as a veterinarian, right

You are causing trouble, imagine that after your words, the developers will introduce "veterinarians" into the game to whom you will need to contact after each vipe to "cure" your brick

Wow, never thought a post could have this much arguing unless I was involved. But don't worry everyone, I'm back yayyyyyy
Lots of good points in here. Seeing as I was on the fence about it before, none of you have really managed to change my mind so hopefully Charon just does whatever Charon feels like doing.

Mydps, make a post about a build. You'll get 2 or 3 responses. Make a post about artifacts, you'll get 1 question about might or prec then one answer to use trans/ strat/ SA.

Then go make a post about stacking auras. Or what's in a time capsule. Or sparkly sneakers or similar and watch that post go for 3 years with 80 comments a day. Some of us like doing damage. Some, and by some I would think 75%, want the scoreboard gone. Want easier raids. Want less content but more auras. Those types spend. A lot more than most end gamers because they're at the end of the game. They may pony up for a week or 2 when new content comes out but only on their main. The other types of players have 30 toons and just spend on all.

We don't know actual numbers of players but we have been told the game has never been more populated than right now. So all those players that left were replaced. It's the only info we have and what Rej is probably referring to. I'm not trying to argue with you mydps because I don't really disagree with you. But that is the info we were given.

I'd like a pet that does more damage so you'd think I'd be all on board with this. I'm still undecided I'd consider a pet progress. I can say that being a source build, an extra 10 or 15% would be very noticeable when buffed 200%. So take the exact same player/ build and give them 2 different trinkets. The one with the better one wins automatically right? Progress or not, depends on your definition that no one seems to be able to agree on.

Only last point, if tiers are made, why does sm have to be involved at all? Couldn't that just give out random stuff/ auras/ materials/ trinkets and titles and then still have rare drop pets in regular content? Solves the issue of whether SM affects the game since that seems to be irking folks because SM claims to have nothing to do with actual gameplay.

If y’all wish I keep the game stagnant y’all are right on the normal course of action.

I won’t disagree on the last point because if you looking at the forums that’s indeed what you will see. The issue is as it’s been since the beginning the large majority of the player base that are hardcore, loyal, consider this forum toxic, care bearish and basically a waste of time to use. That’s not from me that’s from years of dc and knowing the player base perspective about the forums they don’t rock with it at all. As far as this game being as active as ever that’s very false I don’t what people say or what’s lied to you be they game had way more players playing it, players in games will always be replaced but trust me ask others in game that are OGs this isn’t peak population not even half of it.