Dev Discussion Episode 31: 'The Threat Below' Raid

Same story here...and CR236 at the time.

Yeah I'm on the fence, I like that if your group is coordinated, knows what they're doing, follows all mechanics to a T, then the raid is very easy and rarely anyone will die (except for the lazor). if your group isn't very coordinated though, people aren't really communicating, aren't really following mechanics, then it'll be a nightmare straight from Satans back yard.

I'm not even sure if there's more they can do to buff it, the mechanics don't overlap like in PanE, so everything is 100% avoidable (except the lazor). I think ill accept TTBE where it's at, cause there/s no in between. Either the group is breezing through it or they're going to wipe constantly on the first boss.

Regardless if he is buff or not he still uses his one shots, on the healer mainly. There's no tell for it all. But of course when people bother with the game and try to make it "harder" something this happens. Thanks alot PS and PC players.

He targets the furthest player. The solution is to run with two tanks and keep one at the back of the room. The plus is the tank will also get teleported to more often, and can help out grabbing the adds that spawn.

But still thought, a one shot needs a skull, every other boss in the game has one.

That's really all it is??? That explains why I only got the lazor like twice in all the runs I did...suicidal melee range DPS FTW

Thanks for the additional info! I'm looking into that ability more closely. Let me know if you're seeing any other abilities that are causing issues.

The laser one shot was brought up last year about needing a tell. Yes it goes to the furthest person but there’s no reason it shouldn’t have a tell.

To be honest if the lazor really is based on range, then I would leave the one shot there, but adding a skull tell would be a logical choice, that way the group can coordinate who's going to bait the lazor and they'll know when it's coming.

Exactly, it sounds like the difficulty is about right for elite (some people saying too hard, others too easy usually means just right, lol), so I hope they don't nerf it. Same thing with starro's spin attack that only happens when someone is standing behind him.

Groups make or break it. I think its in a good spot imo. Just seems inconsistent at times Sometimes my group (mostly League runs) would clear it it 30 to 40 minutes....and sometimes it was 80 to 100. I feel like after awhile, Starro got a lil mad and went ham on us. In one raid I did close to 30mil in damage...26mil on just bosses...it was nutso. Had a blast doing it though.

I pugged all runs, and they were usually between 20-25 minutes, with top dps between 12-13 mill, everyone else either close behind or just a couple mill under, ran 5-1-1-1

Just a quick question, for Controlled Aquaman on elite, is it intended for people to try to get past the large tentacle attacks using shields, or is it intended to take the tentacles out before they slam? Mostly asking because the first group I ran it with, we took them out and it was a breeze (once those of us new to the elite version understood how it differed from regular) while the other groups insisted on pushing through with shields...even found myself kicked by the group tonight for trying to tell them to take the tentacles out before they slam. And those groups had nothing but trouble with Controlled Aquaman.

The sheilds are the "im too lazy to burn" way of dealing with the tentacle mechanic. They try to have the healer(s) and troll rotate sheilds so everyone lives. That's lazy.

A group of confident dps will burn a tentacle to reduce the damage dealt. I guess it depends how any support roles you have. if you're doing 2222 or 3221, probably better to rotate shields unless you're certain that your 2-3 dps can kill the tentacles in time. If you're doing 4211 or 5111 though, no reason why you can't be burning the tentacles unless all the dps are trash.

That’s what I thought. And pretty sure the group that kicked me was 4211. I figured it was a scorecard chasing thing, maximize boss damage.

Sorry but this is nonsense. What's the difference between a controller/healer co-ordination and a DPS skill check? Why does everything have to be a DPS skill check?

Both ways are legitimate strategies to beat the boss. If you want to burn down the tentacles all good, if you want to absorb the damage because the shields and group are co-ordinated enough to do so then all good.

This feedback and in fact position is exactly what leads to support roles feeling un-needed, because right here you're turning it into a DPS skill check when it doesn't actually need to be one and on top of that you're calling the players lazy when they actually have to communicate and co-ordinate those shields and build them up between tentacle fights each time.

That's not lazy, it's just not the way you choose to do the fight and you're implying its wrong.

What's your hope in giving this feedback are you hoping the developers will nerf shields, buff the damage so the shields can't stop the damage? Because that's what it sounds like you're asking for. Controllers and healers have shields for a reason Fatal and they're there to be used.

Yes, for EMERGENCIES and "oh ****" moments, not to purposely neglect the mechanics so the dps can continue to pew pew away at the boss with no worries.

The fact the devs made the tentacles killable must mean that's how they intended it to be played, that if you didn't kill at least one tentacle, people will die. I find it hard to believe you take this position after debating with me hard in the weapon thread a cpl months ago about how weapon dps shouldn't just be able to ignore counter mechanics, this right here is basically the same principle. You're using shields to ignore a mechanic.

Also if it was up to me, yes, anything that isn't a tank shield would get nerfed. People rely too hard on them for a crutch to bypass mechanics.

The final boss' death beam could do with a tell/skull and/or slight nerf in elite. It's just stupid when someone in the group gets randomly one-shot, sometimes even with a shield, because Starro suddenly decides to shoot a one-shot beam at a random player. It's not careful mechanics at all, just an unfair and almost completely unavoidable one-shot mechanic (unless you by chance have sufficient shielding/heals and maybe luck at the time).

I do think the beam is a good aspect of the boss fight and should stay, but atm it's just a cheap, sudden, and random one-shot attack.

It is happening in elite only.

If it is linked to the empowerment mechanic then perhaps the levels of damage just need to be looked at a little, I've run it in a group where a second tank was sitting by the rocks carrying every single one in and was still getting hit by a beam that would kill a non tank player.

The laser is range based i.e. it appears to go to the primary tank and the other player at the furthermost range.

Is your intent to have this just ramp up if people blatantly ignore the rocks? if so, that's good but perhaps its escalating just a bit too quickly?

Wow, just wow.

A shield doesn't neglect a mechanic Fatal, it overcomes a mechanic. It is a legitimate move in a controller and healers power pool and it is there to be used, Fatal.

You're effectively telling a tank to not use a pull or not use a breakout and are comparing the legitimate use of a power to that of "cheesing a mechanic".

You couldn't be further incorrect, shields are legitimate strategies to overcome mechanics. The fact the devs made the tentacles killable is because they designed it to have multiple ways to beat.

When I was talking about weapon users, as you've obviously misinterpreted me, is that they shouldn't be up in a bosses face, vulnerable. i.e. not using shields or not playing the combat mechanics to get immunity.

In fact it's exactly consistent with what I'm saying now.

What you're saying though is that players shouldn't use their shields at all... Tell me Fatal if players aren't supposed to use their shields to shield against incoming massive damage, when are they supposed to use them? For the laughs in a hall way? Just for mitigating general damage that can easily just be healed through?

Or are they just used for when you want to do some pick ups? Is that their sole use? Or does massive incoming damage from tentacles not count as an "oh **** moment".

It's just a DPS skill check and if the DPS haven't done their jobs we're just supposed to all wipe? Because the group has failed to do it the "non lazy way" by your definition.

edit; in fact this is exactly the problem with the feedback (or more advice) Obsidian Chill was giving that time where he said you should just be using your shields frivolously throughout content with complete disregard for when they might strategically be more beneficial.

This is a moment where you're wanting to build up a shield and use it when its most beneficial not just use it because 'you can'.

It's called strategical foresight, just like when you play chess you're not necessarily playing the immediate move only you're playing and planning moves well in advance.