Dev Discussion Episode 31: 'The Threat Below' Raid

Discussion in 'Concluded' started by JackFrost, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Proxystar #Perception

    I'm not saying the DPS shouldn't do the damage, I'm saying it's not solely a DPS skill check.

    As I said above an efficient group would actually do both. However with that being said of course, if the DPS don't finish the task but the controllers and healers do appropriately co-ordinate their shields effectively, why should the group wipe?

    Especially when there's nothing to indicate you shouldn't be able to shield through it. ;)

    It's just a case of people not liking/preferring one strategy over the other for various reasons. My point actually all along is that neither strategy is any inferior than the other, they're both equally viable strategies that require equal amounts of communication.

    It's not like you're spamming your shields frivolously, you're doing it at a certain time to ensure maximum effect and depending on people's stats those shields are not always going to save you either unless you pop the shield and have every player block.

    It's all equally as much communication, just via a different method. :)
    • Like x 3
  2. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club


    Thank you for getting my point shark. You're pretty much the only one that has.

    Proxy, I see the tentacles as DPS actually having responsibility to keep the raid alive for once. It's always "let's throw that responsibility on support so the DPS can just sit there and pew pew like brain dead drones." I'd like DPS to have at least an ounce of responsibility for once. Why is it support roles need to change their play style and loadout flexibility because the dps don't want to pan their camera slightly to the left or right?

    Yes I think if the group is incapable of killing a tentacle the burn is bad. They don't take long to kill. If I can do it while being top dps with my measily 227 cr celestial DPS, anyone can do it. Of course when the burn is bad though, DPS get a free pass because support is there to pick up the slack. Let a support role slack up though or not have the proper abilities on their loadout they'll probably get kicked.

    If all you see is me asking for a dps check proxy, then you have a very slim perspective and unable to look at things from another PoV very well.
    • Like x 2
  3. Shark Dental Devoted Player

    Right. Like I said, it depends on the devs to defend their creation, lol. At the moment, shielding through it is a completely viable strategy.

    And I personally think that's a shame. It's like the US fight. The only thing DPS needed to do was block to avoid getting one-shotted from his electricity attack. But even that was too much, lol, leading to healers and trolls needing to sacrifice a supercharge, instead of at a time when something went wrong and the group was truly in danger of wiping.

    It's up to the devs to make mechanics matter in elite. If not, they're basically saying that "we're fine with groups ignoring this." It's their call at the end of the day, and their hard work too.

    In regular, I get it a little more, I mean, PuG groups can't always be counted upon to coordinate in anything, lol. But in Elite there should be a little more leeway to punish ignoring mechanics more (and yes, choosing not to do the mechanic, is ignoring it, but isn't cheese or cheating of course). Unless people honestly don't want a challenge I guess.

    As to the difficulty of coordinating rotating shielding supercharges...how difficult is that, really? I haven't run Elite yet, so I don't know if you guys are popping on every tentacle or only the two last ones, but you'd really only have to type, "I'll grab first, you grab second." After that, because of cooldowns , your SC would always be ready in the same order right? And true, you'd have to know to press the shield button at the time that the huge onscreen timer is almost at zero too, lol.

    I'm not criticizing your PoV, of course, or Fatal's. I think both are valid. It's just a question of what's on live currently (Proxy sees a way to streamline the experience without glitching or cheating) vs. what the devs seem to have designed and what's challenging (Fatal wants groups to need to follow the mechanic for success). Both are great feedback, and now it's just up to the devs.
  4. Proxystar #Perception

    Nothing in your post even remotely comes close to implying I should change my position. However, this is a feedback thread so I don't think it's worth convolulting the thread with further discussion on the topic now Fatal, we've both our positions perfectly clear to each other. ;)
  5. Proxystar #Perception

    +
    I'll just end with this as well, because like I said to Fatal it's been thrashed in terms of feedback now.

    It's not ignoring the mechanic it's shielding and living through it, that's not ignoring the mechanic it's surviving the mechanic. ignoring the mechanic would be continuing to kill the boss, while doing nothing to mitigate it and just dying. That's ignoring the mechanic.

    I think you also have to appreciate the fact that you haven't run the elite content so you're speaking from a view of theory rather than a view of actual experience in terms of seeing what the mechanic really is.

    It's like people aren't allowed to contemplate the use of shields anymore, that is literally what is being implied. You can't be deemed to be ignoring the mechanic when you're recognising the mechanic and actively doing something about it, that's the exact opposite of ignoring it. ;)
    • Like x 1
  6. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Oh I'm not trying to get you to change your stance, I learned a long time ago that's literally impossible.

    I'm defending my own stance. If people agree, cool. If not, cool too. Agree to disagree. Like shark said it's up to the devs at the end of the day to figure out what they're going to do with all of this, if anything.
  7. Shark Dental Devoted Player


    Well, let's put it this way. If you go back to old content, like the Prime Battleground, where you're supposed to carry something from one part to another, and normally just walking through at level would get you killed, but because of your CR, it doesn't hurt you at all...did you ignore the mechanics?

    I'm not against using shields to assist your team. Popping shields when the tank is taking heavy damage, or when the whole party is under attack from tons of adds, etc. or if there's an UNAVOIDABLE attack (specifically designed to hurt the entire group, or a random person, like any number of raids) definitely. In those cases, shielding is essential.

    All I can say is SM would be funny with all the shields constantly. But they wouldn't be "ignoring" any of the mechanics either, right?

    It's funny how you feel a need to mention I haven't been in Elite as a way of somehow undermining my reasoning. Have I made any observations that would require me to be up close and personal to sustain them?
  8. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    It's not hard at all coordinating shields btw. You don't even need two healers. One heal and/or a troll/atomic tank with mass density suffices just as well.
    • Like x 1
  9. Proxystar #Perception

    I'll happily discuss it further in a different thread if so desired Shark Dental, but for the purposes of not convoluting a developer discussion thread I'll limit the debate so that feedback doesn't get missed irrespective of whose feedback that is ;)

    If you want to make something in Gotham City I'll happily move there
    • Like x 1
  10. velvetsanity Loyal Player

    I’ve never once had a SC ability in my loadout, so you tell me how hard it is. Me being forced to either run a SC ability (which I’m not at all familiar or experienced with using) or get kicked just so the DPS can pew pew Aquaman instead of taking five seconds to burn a tentacle...
    • Like x 1
  11. Ala Rebeldex Loyal Player

    I gotta agree 100%, not all the groups should work the same. I have beaten this raid using both methods and i don´t understand the necessity to say that one is better than the other. I like the fact that we can bring some Leaguemates that are gearing up and raising up their SP with the shield method and 2 healers setup. I´ll say that if the tools are at dispossal we should use it, period.
    • Like x 1
  12. ligthhawk New Player

    el tema realmente esta en que no se puede perder de vista que el exito en pasar raids como spindrift elite esta en la comunicacion del grupo .la preparacion de los jugadores en su desarrollo para el contenido es decir. contar con skill points adecuados para este contenido .y entender que si no quiere tener dolores de cabeza debe evitar por pesar agrupar con ud mas de 2 jugadores con ud en su grupo de raid a los que toque cargar(amenos que vayan en modo role). ya que moriran constante mente y su resistencia sera minima.esto genera el emperezamiento de muchos jugadores que quieren que los carguen si haber pagado el precio en experiencia en el juego y van con 100 o 120 sp lo que hace aburridorsisimo pasar una raid tan bien diseñada como spindrift elite que exige del buen trabajo de equipo ,el desarrollo de estrategias , la coordinacion y manejo de tiempos ,la habilidad en el manejo de roles ,incluso el manejo de escudos tanto individuales como grupales por parte de los roles lo que permite a los dpss el enfoque en el daño y concentrarse en la mecanica de desarrollo regular y lo que siempre sera recurrente en los buenos jugadores de dcuo, la creacion de nuevas estrategias que permitan llevar a feliz termino la raid y la obtencion de las respectivas proezas .asi que no perder de vista el real objetivo de los nuevos contenido ....subir de nivel en todos los sentidos jugabilidad ,nivel cr ,sp,la capacidad de manejo de su rol en funcion de los otros jugadores y divertirse con el reto en el proceso ,no podemos pretender que nos lo faciliten por pereza a mejorar a conocer mejor la jugabilidad atravez de las proezas y ver como saltarse un proceso que debe siendo logico .es normal.
  13. ligthhawk New Player


    the issue really is that you can not lose sight of the success in passing raids as spindrift elite is in the communication of the group. the preparation of the players in their development for the content ie. have skill points suitable for this content .and understand that if you do not want to have headaches you should avoid regret grouping with you more than 2 players with you in your group of raid that touch load (unless they go in role mode) . since they will die constantly and their resistance will be minimal. This generates the start of many players who want to be charged if they have paid the price in experience in the game and go with 100 or 120 sp what makes it so boring to spend such a well designed raid as an elite spindrift that requires good teamwork, strategy development, time management and coordination, skill in role management, and even the management of individual and group shields by roles, which allows dpss the focus on the damage and concentrate on the mechanics of regular development and what will always be recurrent in the good players of dcuo, the creation of new strategies that allow to bring to a happy end the raid and the obtaining of the respective feats .asi do not lose sight of the real objective of the new content .... level up in all senses playability, cr level, sp, the ability to manage your role as a function of the ot players and have fun with the challenge in the process, we can not pretend to be facilitated by laziness to improve to know better the gameplay through the feats and see how to skip a process that must be logical. normal.
  14. velvetsanity Loyal Player



    Fixed the color so people can actually *see* what you wrote.
    • Like x 2
  15. Gamma Lantern Committed Player

    This argument is flawed at it's core.

    If a group is petty enough to favor certain healers with better shield supercharges in order to bypass tentacles, that group is just as likely to favor certain DPS players with the Tier 1 powersets in order to burn the tentacles fast enough and beat Aquaman.
    • Like x 1
  16. velvetsanity Loyal Player

    It only takes one, maybe two DPS’s to burn the big tentacles fast enough (depending on CR/loadout/player skill) no matter what the powerset...
  17. Gamma Lantern Committed Player

    It only takes one healer to rotate supercharge shields with the troll.

    The point is, you don't run content depending on the way it might influence petty player's decisions, you're better off not running with those type of groups anyway.

    Okay bring a couple sorcery and mental DPS in your next elite run and have only those two players burn the tentacle when it comes up...I already know what will happen but please try and post your attempt
    • Like x 1
  18. Fatal Star 10000 Post Club

    Not game breaking, but can you look into the final cutscene before you fight Starro? It keeps you in combat mode so you can't change your loadout. Like I said nothing major but i often change loadouts during cutscenes, as well as quite a few other players I know.



    To Gamma Lantern: mental and sorc are actually really good at single target, so your argument there is flawed. Should have said something like electric, or rage.
    • Like x 1
  19. Perdition Committed Player

    Indeed, i don’t know why people keep mentioning mental (sorcery i have no clue about) sinds its parsing really good numbers on single target and AOE. Mental is in a pretty good spot atm, it still has some kinks that need to be worked out, but apart from that its a solid power.
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