Might, Power and Support Oh My!

restoration affects the strength of shields, trolls have shields.

If a DPS wanted to go and try and solo something hard or wanted to ensure survival while PUGing something then they might choose to take a shield, thus.

Resto, Health & Dominance benefit.

No, definitely the games fault for providing the loophole to be exploited, and for not having some form of restriction in place, or some incentive unique to our damage role for running in the actual dps stance.

Tanks for instance. These players are seeing that they can not only run an over performing power, but they can get 90% of the damage roles damage output with none of the dps clamps in place, and still get all the added survivability of their support class while geared and spec'd as dps in support stance and doing that damage?

That isnt right. Thats a huge imbalance to our roles and needs to be addressed. We have a damage dealing role, and the damage dealing role doesnt get the benefits of another role while trying to play as a damage dealing role. Period. This is imbalance.

I'd be all for removing power from might, IF they up the might you get from each SP put in.

so say you get 10 might for SP 1 atm, it'd be upped to 20 or 30 if power was removed.

and same goes for power as well. It as a stand alone innate would need to get a buff as well.

iirc I'd have 247 or more SP left after getting movement upgrade, 1sp for weapon, + 60sp for crits.

so I'd put 123sp in power, 124 into might.

and mod straight might in reds, might/power in yellow, might/health in blue like I do now.

You can't expect to restrict peoples abilities within a game by restricting the game because you want people to play the same way you do.

In terms of tanks, why does it matter how much damage out they're doing? I'm curious on one hand you're saying "they're awful players" but on the other than you're saying "they're doing 90%" of the damage out while not losing their survivability"?

That doesn't sound like a bad player Tarif, that just sounds like you outright don't want them being capable of tanking and doing damage as well because it threatens your existence as a damage dealer?

If that damage is contributing to the success of the instance then what's the problem, it sounds to me Tarif that your problem actually rests in one place; your position on the scorecard.

I'm not saying that to insult you either, I'm saying it because that's how it comes across.

Also damage dealers do get the benefit of some support type abilities, cleanses, shields etc. it's not a complete one way street.

You know what my problem is, if you have read anything Ive typed. Read my words, not rationalize "what else it could be". A support role that is able to spec and gear to perform as a dps, at 90% capacity as a dps, while getting all the benefits their support role provides is a complete imbalance to how our roles always have been in game.

And you get what we have in game today. A ton of players spamming this nonsense, with no intent to actually play a support role or fulfill its actual duties in content with a group.

For some reason, your defending this garbage, and Im done with you and trying to spell it out with one of those big red crayons so you can understand. Its an imbalance to our roles. First and foremost it needs to be addressed along with the over performing powers to get us to a "balanced" game with balanced roles again.

No support role was ever intended to get all their support role advantages and yet do 90% of the damage dealing roles capacity if they spec and gear as a dps while just dealing damage in that support role stance. 90% of these players we see spamming this garbage have no intent on playng their actual support role. Its a loophole that has been over looked, and needs to be fixed.

How would you implement that when no matter how you are currently specced hit up on the d pad will change your role.

Also its hard to really change it now as it was preached about by devs in the revamp the way PftT is right now.

However they have created a AM playstyle yet again except this time its for all roles not just dps, where there is really only 1 way to play

And what I'm telling you is what you're saying is incorrect.

You keep saying the same things, but that doesn't make them right.

The statement you're making that "battle support" players are getting 'all their support benefits' is categorically false.

Battle Support players absolutely do compromise their support abilities and stats to allow for extra damage.

Oh I thought it was Dom for shields for trollers. Is it both? If so please feel free and insert a "The more you know" gif here

I usually carry a shield when I'm dpsing but all SP is in might

So would you and anyone else for the matter would leave it as is, Might/ Power together? All other support stats on it's own?

Cause again the problem I'm seeing is when it comes to trolls. Granted not all may do this but all my SP is in Might/Power so I can have enough to dump to keep my heals and tanks going. Nothing in Vit so PoT won't be as high as it could be.

As I'm typing this I just had another thought what if support gear had the increased power stat? . . . Wait then the double dipping comes into play . . . Hmm . . .

Honestly not sure, just throwing thoughts out there. The only think I can think of is it being negated somehow like PvP gear in PvE

Maybe for others. But id rather dps then instead. This is only my opinion, but if im there to troll i worry about doing that role. Same as healing and tanking. Only time im worried about doing damage is if im dpsing. People seem to forget the roles are supposed to work together and are there for a reason.

what I meant was if all you're doing is pressing recharge you might be able to serve that function with half 50-75% the vit and an increase in might, also if you're only pressing recharge switch out defensive trolling abilities for offensive moves that might do more damage or provide additional control.

That is true. I have a battle tank setup as ice. Simply because i really dislike ice dps atm. Im not into the whole battle support thing, i only do it atm because ice dps is so clunky to me.

Anyways i have just enough dom for the requirement for AoJ instances. Im wearing half dps half tank gear. I sacrificed a bunch of dom, resto, and health to get more might. My shields break faster. Ive tanked the alerts and jfa with this build and my survival is nowhere near the same when i go full tank. I dont have the same defense either. I have to rely on the healer much more. Im only doing about 50% of the damage of dps players too but i have 15k might. Thats not high for dps but its high for a tank. I also healed nyx in US while he was battle tanking as ice. And his health jumped all over the place. I had to heal a lot more then i usually do when running that raid.

But there is no possible way i can do 90% of the damage of good dps players. Im not attacking as much because i am still tanking. And im only using tempest>gust to do damage with. I dont think a support player can do 90% of the damage of above average dps players. Key word being "above average."

Because how could they do that much damage while also playing the support role? Because if they arent tanking and they lose aggro or die it will usually cause a wipe in a raid. Same with healing. If the player(s) isnt healing people will die. Now maybe atomic can because u are comboing all the time still as a tank and those combos will do damage. But i havent personally seen it happen.

So i have to agree that a below average or bad player is not gonna do 90% of the dmg a dps does while also fulfilling the duties of the support role they are playing. If that is happening there is most likely some below average dps in the run. I also agree that support players are not getting the full benefits of the support role if they are doing battle support. Ive still been logging in these last 2-3 weeks and ive had to pug almost 100% of the time because our league isnt as active atm because of the hurricane stuff. And i havent seen any support players doing even half my damage when i dps. I have however run into a lot of bad healers in the past few weeks lol

It depends on how many skill points you have, as a troll all mine go into vit first so all 175 into vit (after crits of course) it varies from there, I do put some into might/power. I also use "superpowered" when I troll not hybrid.

He doesn't get this isn't a revamp issue... the same was true prior to the revamp. I could have spec'd into my crits and might, a pure battle stance then as well, ignoring my main stats and focusing on damage potential of the support role.

I admit, it wasn't as common as it is now. I agree with you Proxy, you certainly have to give up something to see better damage numbers.

If in dps form or role you should gain an additional 5% crit chance and magnatude

It can be done.

Some powers have an easier time than others I believe in pulling this off. In troll stance, all DPS gear, I can see % close to this in alerts. I looked at the numbers after two runs through the T8 alerts playing this way, I had 95% of the damage of the top DPS in one run, the second I fared a little worse, only 87%...

What about my "support" duties... well the POT was hindered by the reduced VIT, that's for sure. It's not too noticeable on the adds, because lets face it, they got steamrolled pretty quick, but the boss fights can get a little hairy if you aren't grouped with decent players. With super charges, colas, and well timed supply drops, those are doable as well. One thing that helps is overall I have roughly 7K more POWER with my DPS gear on than I do with troll gear... this allows A LOT more insta power casts than I could ever do in troll stance, although they aren't as strong, they help make up for lost POT.

In the end, I find its more or less a wash, and no real benefit to playing this way other than I find it supper fun... I guess you do get the buffs in addition to the damage, but so do the DPS in the group. I think it takes some skill to play like this and pull it off. Typically there is resistance from someone in the group, and its not widely accepted because you are just expected to sit there and hit recharge so they can do the damage.

For the record, this is pretty limited in scope of where it can be done. You cannot expect to pull this off in a raid as a single support player. I've ran a raid like this with two trolls, the damage numbers weren't quite as impressive there. I did roughly 1/2 as much power out as the primary troll, similar to how a second troll that only recharges used to perform in a raid group, and finished 3rd in overall damage.

I think the crit issue is already well balanced. If they want to give a boost make it a percentage based on might or precision for support roles.

Heck, make it a white gear mode.

But if they do that then the dedicated DPS would need to have a similar one for restoration or vitalization.

Wait...silly me...they already did this. They're called generator mods!

Psssssttttttttt..Dominance is in the healing formula

Vitalization is the only stat on your list that is obsolete to other roles since now it is apparently only for power feed only. Before stats revamp, it affected your power regen based on weapon combos. Now it doesn't and power regen is purely set by your power stat and weapon combo animation times.