[PvP Tournament] - DCUO US 4v4 Champions

Mental's hard stuns locks, something with HL and the Shield's damage.

While this wasn't directed at me, I for one don't think it should be abandoned in the slightest. In fact I appreciate your help in getting PvP this far as a start.

I'd like to host a tournament with no bans, but it just isn't possible right now. I could postpone the tourny, but we don't know when the next set of PvP changes will hit the test server.

Shield will hopefully be fixed with the updates that are currently on the test server, allowing me to unrestrict the weapon. As for the panic stun lock, I haven't seen any developer comment on it yet, so not sure if this will be fixed before the tourny, but I hope it will be. If not I would even postpone the tourny until it's fixed if it gets fixed on the test server. I'd like to run the tourny with the least amount of bans possible.

Thank you.

So two shield combos got nerfed by 50% decrease in damage?
Do they always have to overnerf things?

From my point of view, the shield was too much single target damage and it did too much burst for your likings? Because if the uppercut did a third less damage and a third less time to get off, I see that "in line".

Now they just nerfed the only single target burst combo into the ground and is going to make HB the weapon of choice/FotM.

Am I missing something here?

I was hoping the tournament could be postponed, PvP is broken at the moment. I can guarantee a very big headache if you decide to go forward with it, with pvp in its current state.

Superpatriot can't have an opinion of PvP? Does he have to praise everything you guys do that is good and not point out any flaws?

In my opinion, you guys had PvP near that sweet spot right before weapon mastery was introduced. The main issues were remedied with the incoming PvP season (no utility belts/introduction of PvP Sodas/exclusion of PvE gear in arenas/the ability to get mods via PvP) but, were in turn undone with the introduction of certain elements such as weapon mastery/advanced mechanics/nerfing of roles. The irony is, this all came about because a vocal minority rose up in arms about how boring and slow 5's were, and how people don't die fast enough. The solution was simply to switch to 4's, which is what the USPS server did. The number of teams that were queuing scrimmages was fantastic since it was a lot easier to get a full group whether league or simply a pickup group from 5v5 chat. Every night, there were numerous groups to face, and different setups were viable since skilled countering would overcome most power sets. Teams that ran a DoT oriented DPS (Nature/Sorc/Elec all before the introduction of AM's) were just as effective as bursty powers, and PvP was at it's height for the first time since 2011/2012. On the other hand, 4's/5's aren't the only thing to consider when it comes to PvP, and it's very easy to see how 2v2's/1v1's were very frustrating. It became tough to take down certain setups, and I can't speak on whether the tech was available to scale 2v2's/1v1's to the a more consistent/balanced scenario at that time.

Basically, hindsight is 20/20. I understand where the idea of introducing new combat mechanics to the game is a great way to keep the game fresh, but I'd say take a note from Coca-Cola. People will always prefer Classic Coke to that new formula. If you want me to go in depth further/numbers/specifics, I can't do it tonight, and it would likely have to wait until the weekend, but I'm willing to.

Toodles!

I really hope you guys aren't thrown off the path by people complaining about things that weren't even addressed with GU56. Yes, fine tuning is needed as far as weapon and some ability dmg goes, but that doesn't mean GU56 was a failure by any means.

I don't think Mepps was saying any of that. It looks like he is simply asking for clarification to insure there isn't miscommunication happening.

That's very likely what he meant. The way I took it was him pretty much saying "You don't like the update? Let me undo all the PvP changes."

No, I mean that there are still many things that need to be fixed that damage reduction didn't cover. Obviously the damage reduction has been a good thing and I've never stated anything to the opposite of that.

Please dear god absolutely no, do not bring back the one shots

DO NOT BRING BACK THE ONE SHOTS

DO NOT BRING BACK THE ONE SHOTS

If it sounded like I had a intent to attack Mepps that was not my intent to attack him or any of you guys, my apologies for that, I respect the work he does at times I do feel to much focus with the players comes from here instead of on social media and the game itself. I should have worded it better. What I mean to say is, when we first merged all ps players had interest in was fours but players adapt now fours are looking like a mistake because of the changes. Currently fotm weapon is about to be Hand blasters uppercutting which doesn't have the same burst as 4 tap shield which overall does the same damage. Which means everyone on dc will be nature healer and dps would consist of mainly earth and hardlight dps.

There has been "Cheese"For a long long time,and there has always been counters to the overpower weapons and powers.And it will be very hard to make it a perfect world where all the powers are equal and all the weapons are equal.There will be a FOTM if you nerf Shield,it will be HBs and so on and so on.People from USPS (idk about USPC) took long breaks from the game because the tournaments had stopped.Some of the top leagues in USPS came back to the game for the competition,the tournament,the bragging rights it all comes back to being competitive.I feel like you should host this tournament just to have the PvPers have something to look towards to,something they will get on to practice for because if theres nothing to look foward to,then people will get bored of just Scrimming to just scrimm and people will walk away again.It has happened before in USPS.Instead of suspending tourny you should allow everything IMO double HL Or Earth tanks to negate shield DMG.It will IMO keep things interesting and fun.Which team can counter the "Cheese" or what team can come up with a strategy to beat what other people are doing.I think all the good players from USPS And USPC can find a way to adapt to the FOTM.We had to addapt every time something OP came out.But atlease we will have a competitive tourny to look towards to,because at this rate every time a Pc team or Ps team losses to something they will want it banned from tourny.Till we end up banning every weapon and power from the tourny..Another example,You bann double HL every one will mental,you bann mental people will go earth,you bann earth people will go another power and so on so on.Some Pc leagues are confident they can win with everything allowed and so are Ps leagues.So why not just play it out instead of trying to get stuff banned.Thats just my opinion but what ever you decide my league will adapt to it and participate.Just hope it dosn't get cancelled.

Still conflating two different issues. PvP still needing to be fixed has nothing to do with a player held tournament. Earlier you mentioned how small a cross section of the playerbase the forum represents. Yet we are in here arguing about a tournament only advertised on the forums. I'm gonna disagree with yourself and SP here, but much like yourself it doesn't mean I don't respect or like the any of you. But his initial comment in this thread was unnecessary. Why? It should have been it's own thread (or a PM to Kody) and not a post in this thread. Why? Because Kody is just a player, just like any player right now on all servers who could be hosting a tournament. Any feeling that a tournament shouldn't be hosted right now should be aimed at everyone not just Kody. Fair dues though, that's down to forum etiquette and I don't expect everyone to know these things. I'm not getting at you for defending SP, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I think this situation to me boils down to this time honoured phrase

"There's a time, and there's a place"

It was bad form derailing the thread like this

That is all

This PvP update and the new tech to keep damage separated between PvP and PvE has been one of the best things that has happened for PvP in a while. All that people are implying is that there is still a long way to go.
People will always find something to criticize about. Welcome to a MMO. With every player comes his idea of what "perfect gameplay and balance looks like".
I have disagreed a lot with you. Every now and then i have bashed on you myself. This will be one of the few times i'll be actually thanking you. You did good this time around. Once you guys asked for feedback, forums blew up with feedback with countless threads. You did good with collecting data from different posts, getting answers to our questions related on testing and the whole moderation did a good job when it came down to locking threads that went way off the rail.
You do deserve a pat on your back this time around. All that people are implying right now is that it's a little too soon to take a vacation to the Bahamas.

So when's the tourney again? (Pssst there's a big ol dev discussion thread about GU56. Use that instead of kody's thread about HIS tourney)

The pvp changes so far have been good hope the progress continues. The tourney should b fun to watch and participate.

Just for the record: everyone on USPC wholeheartedly disagrees with this kind of sentiment and it's the most fun we've had in this game, PvP-wise, since 2011-2012. Also, we've been scrimming against a lot of very good PS teams that welcome and are thoroughly enjoying the changes even though they were misled by some folks early on when we were testing.

I completely support this first pass at fixing PvP. The problem is that it isn't clicking on a meaningful level in some peoples brains that this was indeed just a start. The issues that are in the game now and are banned for the tournament are things we've already mentioned but you guys couldn't fix in time for crossplay (which is completely understandable). I don't think this should reflect on the general update in any way. People just need to respect the fact that the changes require time and effort that's not always readily available.

The devs and testers did one hell of a job collaborating to turn around PvP compared to what it was before the update. I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

Well in all honesty man the 50% reduction on 4 tap hold for Shield is about right for the DPS time. For example that reduction puts it in line with Elbow Drop from MA.

I also found it odd that they supposedly were adjusting Hand Blaster's Uppercut and Fist Slam yet I found zero change to it. If you compare my numbers they are close enough to each other from before and after to clearly see, no change were made.

I personally think Uppercut Mastery, Fist Slam, and Fist Slam Mastery should all receive a 15% reduction in damage. This will put their DPS to be on the same grounds as Shield as it is on Test right now. I left off Uppercut from that reduction cause I feel Uppercut is fine. It's the Mastery that is hitting a wee bit harder than it should.

MA also was suppose to have Axe Kick adjusted and it has not been. MA still has the hardest hitting lunge (HB's Leap Attack is fixed on Test) with it being able to hit up to 3,400 at entry stats. Which is insane.

If the changes I mentioned above were implemented HB's, MA, Rifle, and Shield would all be around the same strength and good choices for single target damage. However, right now as far as what is on Test (or was at least last week right before the weekend), HB's is the clear winner.