Why haven't coyotes been adjusted yet?

Moin

Boy, I would love it if they'd increase the skill ceiling for ground gameplay. Would make it much more interesting.

But since more bad players play this game than good players that will never happen.

Let me explain something, lockons SHOULD NEVER BE THE BETTER OPTION, that is a massive flaw. Lockons have a very low skill ceiling, and generally are not fun. With the low skill ceiling there is no way of getting better, so no point in playing, HAVE FUN WITH A DEAD PLAYER BASE, oh wait 90% OF THE PILOTS ALREADY QUIT.

sigh, anyway the higher skill alternative should be better, or the air game can keep going in the direction it is and it'll just be the start of server smash lockon fest, have fun with that!

This guy gets it.

The problem with coyotes isn't that they are a dedicated A2A loadout that is good for A2A, it's that they require less skill while being more effective then the other A2A options.

Skill should always be the deciding factor, yet this seems to be lost on many people who are so desperate for crutches to get into the airgame they can't see in the long-term how this would destroy the very airgame they are training to get into.

Yes they do EVENTUALLY kill people. You don't get in the game day one, never played a fps before and do well. I know i didnt.

I got owned as infantry hundreds of times before i got a kill.

I got owned hundreds of times in my ESF before i got a kill.

Seems fine.

If i wanted an EASY game id go play WoW.

Besides which Coyotes do nothing to help new pilots, they only slow their progression, or make it so they can't really play at all except by grieifing people with weapons which are clearly working far too well.

In a FPS where AIM is supposed to be EVERYTHING coyotes require none. I don't know how to explain to you how that is a bad thing in a game where most people come to play and win based on SKILL.

Answer what question? Why should ESFs be hard to learn?

Ok ill answer that, because some people like a challenge. Because having everything be EZ mode will make a lot of people leave. Not everyone wants to use aimbots and cheats or EZ mode weapons that aim themselves.

There are some people who like to work hard to become good at things, and we want to know how good we are by competing against other players.

ESFs are pretty much the only arena in this game where you can have meaningful back and forth fights that last longer than 2.2 secs. Ok tank vs tank fights are fun too, though they require far less skill.

The more playstyles your game caters to, the more people will play it. If you take all of the skill out of the game then anyone who wants to a play a game that requires skill will leave.

We have lots of easy ways for people to play. You can be a sniper, or drive an AI tank or get in a max suit.

The reward, the difficulty, the challenge of the air game is what keeps me paying my 15 dollars a month membership.

They sold a lot of cheeze weapons, made a lot of money off coyotes. We all know that's why they are so lame, its not a big secret. Every weapon that is new has to be op or no one would buy it. Coyote sales were sluggish so they buffed the carp out of them.

How many good pilots did we lose?

Besides, even with the supposed ludicrous difficulty of learning to fly there are lots and lots of people who have learned. It's not like there are only 2 pilots in the sky.

If you want to make it easier for new players to learn let AB tank a2a nosegun combos cost less resources and have no timer.

Fix the flak so that it doesnt have 1.5k range and fix lock-ons so they aren't locking on you from every point of the map even when you are nowhere near attack range.

These are the REAL impediments to learning this wonderful and amazingly fun thing we call the Air game in PS2.

Because what happens when you give a skilled pilot Coyotes? I got news for you, since you don't seem to have much flying experience, you aren't going to one clip a good pilot.

See with a nosegun you sort of have to stop all your wiggling to shoot.

With coyotes you can wiggle your *** off and still have perfect accuracy.

We don't want things balanced based on good player with nosegun vs bad player with coyotes. We want good pilots vs good pilots.

When you look at evenly matched players, one with nosegun one with coyotes, the coyote pilot will win every time.

He won't have any fun, unless hes a troll, but he will win.

So hes feeling less enjoyment than he would have if he had used the fun to aim nosegun, and his opponent logs off in disgust leaving him no one to fight against.

Im sure some people giggle with delight knowing that they have made someone quit the game, but i wouldn't want that happening in my game.

I can honestly say that I didn't have a .01 KDR when I started this game. It wasn't very high, somewhere around .75 but it wasn't THAT low. My ESF KDR wasn't terrible, but I learned to play it when everyone else did. Thats a little different nowadays for a new player.

This might be a matter of play style, but I just don't think Coyotes are that good. I've tried them, I didn't think they were as good as as Tomcats or AB pods. But I prefer a different sort of engagement. I harass a group of aircraft or ground, I don't engage in duels. This is mostly due to being in a platoon when and if I fly.

This is the way I see it. Get better to deal with Coyotes. I mean I've been killed a total of twice by Coyotes since they were released, both times I wasn't in the air, but on the ground and this is before their blast radius was nerfed vs infantry. I mean other players seem to stick with Rotary/ABpod combos and still do well. I'm sure everyone can.

You seemed to have made an assumption that I support the use of Coyotes. I'm actually pretty indifferent towards them. What I don't like is people claiming it takes skill out of the air game like the air game has any sort of substance to it. Right now its whomever can reverse manuever the other to death and nosegun them. Congrats.. you took a ESF out of the air.

What does that mean? Random zerglings aren't getting rocket podded. Random zerglings that are not where they are supposed to be (if they can be rocket podded). You can't stop 4 Galaxies bearing down on the base ready to drop a platoon on point. In fact since you're in the air, you're rather useless to your team in that case.

But yeah you can claim you have a skill in something that is competitive against similar players. But at the end of the day, none of those skills take bases, none of those skills win alerts. You're effectively running around the map looking for pointless air duels. Not trying to insult you or your playstyle, but I am pointing out the reality of the situation.

Now look at the changes coming to ESFs and Libs in the next patch. They are nerfing ESF's ability to deal with vehicles. They are focusing the Lib into a AV role and the ESF into an AI role. Since we know the Galaxy is a transport, that leaves one vehicle in the future to be an air superiority craft, the Valkyrie. Of course this is just a theory and an assumption.. but what is going to be the reaction if the Valkaryie is now the king of air. Those skills honed for the last 2 years are met with a brick wall from Mass Drivers (AA weapons supposedly made for the ESF in its update that added Hornets/Coyotes), and heavies with AA lockons in the rumble seats (we already know this is confirmed to be present).

I really think you should take a hard look at what ESFs will be in the coming months. Be prepared for it to be a flying flash. And get out of this mindset that its the last bastion of 'skilled vehicular play'. And if you're really looking for air duels, there's probably much much better games out there for that style of play. Again.. I'm not trying to insult that style of play, I'm just taking a realistic approach. There was a time where I flew a ESF alot more than I do now.. but back then I saw the writing on the wall and realized it wasn't always going to serve in the role that it did. And this was months ago.

No its not about who can reverse maneuver the other to death, its about AIMING.

This is an FPS game, which inherently means you have to AIM.

You don't have to AIM with coyotes or A2A missiles.

What other aspect of the game do you not have to aim?

And if what you say is true, if ESF become the flash of the sky how many more players will be lost?

Keep nerfing things, and keep watching the population dwindle.

And everyone who cant fly uses that lamer excuse that flying takes no skill its just about who can outreverse who and nosegun them. That is the premise of the ENTIRE game. Who can outmaneuver who and out AIM them.

What kind of game did you think this was when they told you it was an mmofps? Did you think they had tab target in these games?

What exactly is skill in your opinion? A skill is something that you learn and then practice to get better at. Thats what skill is.

You must learn to fly and practice it to get better, hence flying takes skill.

A2A missiles require you only to be aiming within 50 meters of an enemy aircraft. There is nothing to learn. No ability to practice to get better, hence no skill.

Coyotes require no aiming at all, just proximity. My opponent can be entirely invisible, off the screen and if im within 10 meters no matter which way im facing my coyote missiles will hit.

That means i can fly by you over and over doing all kinds of crazy stuff to mess up your aim and not miss a single shot of coyotes.

If you can't understand these simple concepts about skill and if you can't see why people are frustrated by these mechanics, then I dont think anyone can help you.

Just give us Coyote machine guns if its ok not to have to aim. Why should ESF pilots be the only ones who have to deal with this kind of mechanic?

Exactly.

And why as a Dev would you put things in the game that do nothing but fracture the player base, divide the community and cause players to leave the game?

For a few bucks? Wouldn't you make more money by keeping more players?

Think of how many coyote rifles people would buy. Thats a lot of coin SOE, think about it!

I can easily answer this one. Skill is having your team beat the opposing team. When you duel in a ESF and lose an alert. You didn't win which means you were bested. It means the other team beat you with superior skill in tactics, logistics, and equipment.

Let me tell you what true skill is, in any Competitive Online game:

1. What you know.

2. What you have.

3. Who you know.


1. is knowing when to use what. Its also player skill such as aiming, recoil compensation, and angle of attack. This applies to air, infantry, and ground vehicles.

2. is what sort of equipment you have. Using long range weapons for long range engagements and short for short is a basic way of describing it. Pretty much have the right tool for the job.

3. is your squad, platoon, or outfit. Alliances count towards this too. Because lets face it. No matter how good you are, you can't win a 10v1. Whether it be infantry, vehicles, or air.

Anytime you are missing one of those things you will most likely lose to someone who isn't missing one of them. All three take some sort of skill. If its 1. you need to know how to aim, compensate for require, and all that, thats your practice and just overall experience. For 2. you simply need to grind out certs to get stuff. In most MMOs this is level and gear. In PS2 its certs and abilities. Quite simply a guy with basic healing tool or basic afterburners has less of an edge than someone who's maxed out such abilities. 3. is very often overlooked. Their is skill here too, your skill with dealing with other players. Being an effective leader or follower. Getting along with people.

Lets say you're awesome at flying ESFs. And you're decked out in certs and weapons. But you're flying solo. You're missing number three. You're going to get gibbed by 3 burster MAXes. You're going to get wrecked if you encounter 2-3 other aircraft who are working in concert. Yes you can fight duels, but those people are missing 1/3rd of their effectiveness too.

As this pertains to Coyotes, you simply need the skill to deal with them. If they're so prevalent then you need to switch up your tactics. I mean you ask why don't infantry have something like Coyotes? They do, they're called Shotguns and SMGs. They're close range weapons. Engage them with long range noseguns and what can they do? Freak out and run away. If they are so 'skilless' then you should have no problem out ranging them.

As I've said before, I've never died to Coyotes in 1 to 1 air engagements and its usually because I'm engaging at longer ranges. I'm no great pilot, I'm not terrible. And I can deal with those who are using them simply because they are ineffective against my engagement range.

My advice is to stop dueling up close. What you are doing is countered by Coyotes.. (judging by your statements anyway). So change it up. If you've got skill like you say you do, this shouldn't be an issue. If you can't do that, I don't know what else to tell you, just need to get better. Get those three things I spoke about above.

Pretty sure 2 ESFs with Rotaries and ABpods will annihilate any two ESFs using Coyotes in a 2v2. And the gap just gets exponentially worse for the coyote users the more players (3v3, 4v4, and so on) get involved. Just because a weapon is decent in a 1v1 scenario does not mean it needs a nerf.

As you said, this is a MMOFPS. Not a dueling simulator.

since when do smg's and shotguns hit your target if you're "close enough" if that absurd a level of mechanic was introduced to any other area people would flip

You know you don't have to ADS to hit with those right?

yeah but you still have to aim at your target, honestly go ask anyone you find how they'd feel about adding in a new gun that hits your target if you're within a couple feet?

Wow. You are so clueless. An Smg is just a machine gun like any other gun it requires aiming. Shotguns require aiming.

Wait ill stop now, not gonna feed the troll.

I'll tell you what, if you are so good against them. Come to connery, ill put them on any plane you want, except my skeeter cause i dont have em on that. Then we can duel. I wont even use my nosegun. You get nothing but nosegun. Lets see how you do.

You mean like the Lasher? Or any default Rocket Launcher? Is that what you were looking for? How about grenades or mines? lol

Thats fine. I'll get my buddy to ram his Galaxy straight down your throat and drop my static squad on your base and take it. No nosegun needed. How useful is your little dueling ESF now?

I come with skillsets 1, 2, and 3. Like I said before, if you're missing one of those, you'll lose.

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http://3.bp.************/-vmBcXS095Vw/UEMHlX-h0RI/AAAAAAAAJxE/Oei2xBTsxtg/s400/Coyote+babies.jpg

and do you know how much *****in is going on about default rocketlauncher? The other things you named are too bad in other categories to make a difference. Think before posting

Basicly the Ghost Reload gives you More Dmg if you hit BOTH (Primary Weapons + Coyotes), you can get Higher DPS with good Managing of your weapons + Reloads.

If your Idea would come online you basicly KILL coyotes, making them worthless Crap -> For 1000 Certs blocking your fuel tanks.


I would suggest to Nerf Weapons SLOWLY, and look for the Effect. So maby remove Ghost reload and look for the Effect, OR Nerf Reload time + Magazine Size, and look for the effect.


I just dont understand your Anger against the Weapon, there are other Solutions then nerving them do Death.


Btw: PS2 is a Teamplay, i fly sometimes with a second Pilot, He uses Fueltanks and i use coyotes and vehicle stealth, enemys will focus him mostly (because he pops up on the Radar) and i deal the DPS.
This is Called Teamplay + Using your Brain and should weigh harder as "1 skilled player", same as having some "mid skilled" player backing you up with Tomcats.

PS2 is not only "1 v 1 Skill" but also a Teamplay game, at least it should be.... so my Opinion -> Do not kill coyotes!

just removing ghost reload I think we be sufficient

Yes, the "ghost reload remove" could be a Idea to nerf the massive dmg output without killing the weapon totaly.

Btw. My last post got edited on the end... dont expectet u to respond so fast.

You sir, are a skilled player. Using what you know, what you have, and who you know to beat your opponents. If more people did this.. most complaints would go away. You are the kind of person that I love and hate fighting against at the same time. The others are pretty easy to fight against. They're one dimensional. They focus on coyotes being the source of their problem and they make easy targets because of it. It is like when A2A tomcats were ticking of the 'elite' pilots. I used to say.. just aim a lockon at them and lock them... don't fire, just hold the lock and watch them rage off into a cliff.

Its looking like Coyotes are working the same way. Use them because it ticks them off. A mad opponent is unfocused and easy to dispatch. As for them threatening to leave. I wish they would. Whenever an opponent quits a game because of something I did, I consider it a major victory on my part. But of course they are bluffing. No one says they are leaving when they do, they just do it.