We need more pilots

Its not just a question of the pointers and basics - its a question of helping people avoid building bad habits, and getting them stuck into the good habits that'll help them succeed.

There's also a surprising amount of minutiae that you have to SHOW people how to do. Just doing it in a video, even in 3rd person, doesn't fully describe the maneuver. What i generally do is take people out to Hossin and given them a narration of "Ok, watch me do this. Roll in here, pause, pitch down and thrust out. Now you do it, take turns." and teach them how to do things like pop-overs and drops. I once did an outfit training session, and had people remarking afterwards that they had no idea it could do some of those maneuvers - because they'd only watched from the passengers seat or the gunners box, or just plain treated it like a taxi.

There's also the even subtler, ethereal wisps of knowledge like why you don't re-arm on airpads, how long you loiter based on pop size before clearing off for another pass, and how long you wait to do another pass. These are not video things, but they are fine points that if left un-taught, will require a lot of painful analysis that will discourage people.

I don't think that's so much different than any other aspect of the game. Like when you snipe, how often should you relocate, and to how far away. Should you be prone when you de-cloak so you can land better head shots or be standing so you can go straight to ADADAD when you start shooting your SMG. Should you park your Vulcan Harasser behind a tank or keep moving. Units are for holding your hand after you're shown the basics, I just don't think Daybreak can be expected to explain in depth in every aspect of the game, especially with changing metas. Then you have player preference as to what works for them and doesn't for the next guy. A perfect example was talking to a veteran pilot a couple months back. He's never once mapped analog throttle to a hot key and he's one of the better pilots on the server. Meanwhile I typically only use decelerate to land or when I'm chasing a guy that wants to zig zag through trees. Expecting Daybreak to baby everyone to that extent is just too much.

This thread is about encouraging people to get into the air game and, for some people, that's getting them into something they do not find approachable in the least. There is no such thing as "too much."

True, but there is such thing as what's realistic. I think cheaper air, an easier to use nosegun, and maybe some embedded tutorial videos would make things much more approachable and be easily accomplished. Putting detailed tutorials on every aspect of this huge game, considering changing metas with every patch, that's just unrealistic. And even if they did spend all those man hours expanding the tutorial system, I'd rather have that precious time spent on other problems, such as broken in game mechanics which keep air from being approachable in the first place.

It's the ****** flight mechanics.

The reverse maneuver is hilarious. Partly because you can go in reverse, but mostly because it needs this weird glitch in forward-to-stop/hover mechanics to make work. No way that **** was intended as part of the design.

There is no way to use mouse for yaw (if desired).

No way to use a flight stick as that **** is janky broken since release.

There is basically no way for a new player to transition existing skills from other flight games over to this. There is also no actual opportunity to practice. Consider a new player heading from warpgate to a dogfight. They'll get ~10 seconds of practice before getting shot down. Repeat once or twice more, then they are out of resources.

They will realistically never get good. Sure some folks have eventually done it, but it requires an amount of dedicate that is impractical.

So... Devs ain't going to overhaul the flight mechanics. Therefore, the air situation will continue until this game finally comes to an end. Get used to it.

Flight in this game is pretty good. Everyone keeps ******** about the mechanics, but there really isn't that much which is unique in this game. Mouse for pitch/roll is the same as Arma and every Arma mod. ESF fly basically the same as VTOLs in that game. After playing this game so much, I've been doing the reverse maneuver in Arma in my little birds and absolutely wrecking stuff. Binding yaw to the mouse should be an option, nearly everyone agrees on that. The flightstick is beyond worthless in ESF, so that could use some help, but it will never be competitive and rarely used so I wouldn't want that as a priority. Another nice modification which would lessen the skill gap and just generally improve flying would be having analog throttle lock the motors in hover position until accelerate was hit. Then add my proposed new player friendly nose gun combined with cheaper air to let new players deal some damage and spend less time waiting on nanites. You're right, flight won't get overhauled, but I honestly don't think that's needed. A couple little changes is all it would take.

The solution is pretty simple, a shot lead indicator like real fighters get for nose guns; remove radar stealth because when a new pilot can't see ESF coming on radar they are often just dead before they can react at all and create an NS fighter that is cheaper and 200% more effective against aircraft and worthless against ground targets. Even a newbie nearly always wins when he goes 1v1 against a medic w/o c4 when he's in a max suit - the new cheaper NS fighter needs to be like that when compared with the current ESF - only reverse the cost so the ESF is more expensive (not as extreme as free v. 450 nanites, but you get the point) and the NS fighter is worthless against ground targets.

The flight mechanics are a huge problem that is very true. And you hit the nail on the head with the reverse maneuver specifically.

There are fanatics for every vehicle in the game; but regardless because they are both transport vehicle with "limited" combat effectiveness unlike a "powerful" lightning tank and harraser, less people will flock to use them. I'm sure sundeyking also loved his sundays too, before you know they took the sledgehammer to it for obvious reason.

Thats not entirely true, it takes a lot more then just one clip from the default gun. Maybe its the long range ones but even then, they fire so slow that you have enough time to react. Or are you saying a tranport vehicle shouldn't be afraid of their direct counter because they happen to have a faction specific weapon to counter the counter.

1.People shouldn't blame the other hornets. Drops differently differently but you can get the same result with practice. Overall its an excuse. (Zerg surfing alone on nc)https://imgur.com/ty5kmM8 (Second pass) https://gfycat.com/UnpleasantGrippingCod

2.So kind of like the dalton? I remember that being more of a detterent chasing a lib then the hyena because a lucky/stray/skillful shot will ruin anyone's day tack on with the Lib's HP, they just fly to their warpgate/flak/skyshield shooting at you all the way. Not saying I support this but DBG is very slow to respond to these things.

Bottom line is, sure I don't care if they gutted hornets against all air and not just valk, never was their intended use anyways, let it go the way of the dalton. In return, remove repair and anything thats a not primary gun on the rumble seat. You already have a built in mounted gun on the second seat, use that. Its a tranport vehicle, a damn good one at that.

Stop quoting ricincake we dealt with it when TR had population advantage, now it just happen to be VS turn. I'll paraphase _________"I didn't complain when Mori jumped me 2v1 all the time." Fair fights don't happen in planetside, up to you to bring it. I fully support you in what you're trying to do but understand two things. You cannot be blaming people for not switching factions, it is their prerogative to play on the faction they want, its a game, literally not their job and its literally the dev's job. Even discounting faction loyalty, there are few pilots who have account on all three faction and even fewer are willing to do what you want.

Then you are not counting for how how Air would interact with ground. When I tank on NC, I specifically avoid fight where there are enemy air superiority because I'm dead if I'm singled out by anything that flies. If esf were ever free, it would be a slugfest surely but sooner or later the scale will tip to one side, ground would suffer in between and in the aftermath. Unless you remove all ESF A2G weapon to make it cheaper like some people suggest, which DBG can never do. So you're left with 3 real scenario. 1 in a million they make everything cheaper, esf included. 1 in a long shot, a new cheap interceptor ESF, they have added vehicles before.

Or your idea of a group of 4th factioner that would switch around, but then what, you've never answered Don's rebuttal, "so you are just giving air superiority to the other faction when you move around like that". If you can give me a decent answer or go through the logistic yourself to see how hard it is of getting enough people to fly as a group, I'll switch side and fly for you.

The stated premise of the rumble seat nerf was that it would was a tradeoff to boost the weapons. This is perfectly fine to me, and I supported nerfing the rumble seat, as I never flew with more than one engy anyway. By reducing the survivability vs. noseguns, by changing the resistance values, there's been effectively a double dipping in favor of the ESF. Because Valk can carry six people, this alters the risk reward ratio in favor of the ESF.

That's not an equivalent exchange, and you know it. If you remove the rumble seat repair, I will expect the pilot auto-repair to be removed as well.

Would make sense if the aircraft controls were more than ASDW

VS Hornets yield better results because they're easier to use. I just want both missiles to hit where you put the crosshair and track as well as they do on the Scythe. For arguably the single most powerful A2G weapon in the game, I think that's a fair request.

The entire point is to help the server get to the point where no side has air superiority. And you also go too far in assuming I want nothing but 1:1 fights throughout the game, that's not the case at all. Overwhelming population advantage, air superiority, armor superiority, base building superiority..... I don't want to see any faction have any of those things, the game is more competitive and enjoyable without them. Same reason I don't want to spar with a girl or go fishing in a stock tank, there's just no challenge or sport in it, which is a pretty critical component in any game, computer, football, fighting or whatever.

I think it is, the valk is a transport vehicle first and formost but some people been using it like a flying harraser and I think its wrong. Even worst is when only one faction with faction specific weapon gets to have fun abusing it. I've been in both side of the striker valk, pre-nerf and post nerf, abiet not as extensively as you.(QRFT does do T2 valks)

FPSK have been using it heavyly as a highly mobile transport and to great effectiveness, I've experience this first hand playing with them, and usually the only thing that stop a drop is very heavy air presence, which again why I think the valk is in a great spot right now. Very cheap, very mobile, can function very well in CAS if there is little AA.

As for the auto repair that ESF get, it was a very welcome QOL buff, everyone but the hardcore bailers benefitted. I think it would be great on the valk too when they remove the backseat repair. I was never a fan of back seat repairs either, and I've been a harraser driver/gunner long before I've ever became a pilot. It just made the vehicle tankier then it should ever be, harkening back to the problem such as the repair battle sundeys. It should have enough health to make your insertion, and maybe get out with some fancy flying, but not enough to take on vehicles above its weightclass just because you have engies in the back.(I use to hunt libs and gals with baka TR pre-nerf) No other vehicle can get constant repair while under fire, why does the valk need to be special when it excel at everything its designed to do and then some.

TLDR: Dial back some of the damage a valk(or one faction's valk) can do and dial back some damage it take in exchange, because its a transport not a fighter.

1. I was talking about people who invalidate all the practice I put on with the hornet when I post anything related with, "Now try to do that on a mossi or reaver". It different sure, it might be harder to use for some people and thats subjective, maybe DBG should fix it sure, but it isn't super high on their priority list either because maybe its not that gamebreaking, and more of a QOL for the other two factions. My problem is these people blame the weapon instead of just getting better with it, brushing it off or that its only good on VS. Thats a load of crock, I want to bring Orgemarkx in here to prove my point because he has killed me multiple time when I was in my vanguard.

2. Subjective and you know it. Also fundamentally wrong to look for in a game like planetside. If it was a game like tekken then sure, because that have a set boundary and rules with playstyle fitted for a fair fight or a 1v1 fight at least. You've been running with many TR outfits so you should know this by now. What is or were there anything stopping you guys from farming with your libs and mossi and armour when there is no opposing air. I also seen you on VS before when TR is overpop, what did you do alone against them. Pulled a scythe and killed one or two before dieing then switching to medic and join a squad for 10 minute before trying again? If you want to play this game correctly, you need organizations, leaders and purpose. People wants to fly, but the real shortage is people wanting to lead. Or have you not notice how a Burt lib and mossis function independently although they are in the same platoon.

You have galvanized me, I'll prove to you what an organised air squad can do beside farming pilots at warpgates this weekend. Come join for an hour or so, if I can get VTG to spare a spot for my squad.

There's no doubt air is insanely effective, more so than ever in my opinion. I saw how effective A2G was when there was zero fear of enemy air when I was flying with you and Grisha, there's nothing else to see there. Which is why I want to see every faction take part in it to the extent VS does. And I do agree that it's of course within the ability of the other factions to make happen, that's what I'm trying to make happen when I feel like herding cats. I actually had a 6-man air squad up the other night on TR. Half new pilots that didn't know how to reverse maneuver. After 30 minutes or so there wasn't anything else to shoot. CN88 actually pulled at least 2 Scythes for every Mossy we had and only left myself and another mossy up by the time we killed them all. That was the most fun in the air I'd had in a very long time, which is sad, one epic dogfight per month or so. So, with as dominating as air is, as few pilots as we have, and how easily it is for a single faction to gain air superiority and then keep it with little effort, I still think game mechanics should change, all for the sake of keeping air populated and big air fights happening on a frequent basis for the first time ever. Say all 3 factions had the same air thing going on as VS. Eventually 1 would end up keeping more fighters in the air and thanks to nanites that momentum is very difficult to overcome. So regardless of population balance happening, we still need a more forgiving nosegun option and a cheaper way to keep people flying. If people are so dead set on keeping ESF expensive, then it looks like it'll have to be a pure A2A NS fighter. That worries me, because then the ESF is in a funny place as to what its role is.

What would you want changed?

I actually wrecked them, it was silly really. I forgot how great the Scythe is for dueling, I no kidding shot down at least 8 or 9 ESF without dying. By that point VS was still greatly under-pop but had so much air that I logged off for the night. That couldn't have been the day you were talking about with Grisha because there wasn't a single decent TR pilot in the air and they didn't come close to taking down my dusty Scythe. This was one of those days where all 3 zergs were avoiding eachother and there wasn't a single good fight. I just don't understand how the majority of PS2 players are content spamming HE shells at a shield.... I just don't understand.

For me, learning how to fly is not the problem. Why I should fly is the issue. People complain all the time about people not playing the objective and just farming. Flying an ESF is just pure farming but worst. At least when farming as an infantry, you see the objective and some times, pure luck will bring you close to it. There is a sense of accomplishment, a winning or losing when you win or lose a base. When flying, you do not even see if the point is flipped or not. All there is to do is kill kill and kill. A base is lost? *shrug* Who cares? Let me fly for 30s and fight else where.

For a pilot, losing or winning a base mean nothing to him. Everything he need can be pulled from the warp gate, the only difference being a few seconds more of travel time. The only thing that indicates your success or fail is KD and for me at least, that is so mindlessly boring that I gave up trying to improve my flying skill after a few days of trying.

That's not a fair statement. An ESF is a force multiplier just like any other vehicle. I always pick the fights that will do the most work for my faction, and when they need boots on the ground, we ditch our ESFs. It's all about the player.

To be a force multiplier. You see how potent they are at killing, so kill what needs to be killed to capture the points with them. Obviously not all bases can be won by air, but many can be dramatically helped by it. Give flying a real shot and be one of the pilots who actually takes the hard fights instead of padding their kdr.

I agree with adamts01. Some pilots and players use the ESF for more than just farming.

I spent most my time in an ESF doing work to capture or defend bases, and otherwise support ground allies in pushing formal objectives. I used every resource I could that was legal to push the objectives, including taking multiple deaths. And, like adamts01, I also was quick to ditch the ESF (respawn in midflight or disposable sky taxi to strategic location) and switch to Infantry or Ground Vehicle when the fight needed it.

That said, I am just saying that it is *possible* to use an ESF for formal objectives, and that some do. But I would totally agree that most ESF users use them to farm OR as roaming Faction support that isn't really committed to a specific battle.