We need more pilots

You've got Skyknights on one side then gank squads on the other. Both sides are blind to how they're damaging to community. The problem may be the community, but that's clearly not the solution. The only way I see anything ever being fixed is with a nearly-free option in the air and a much smaller skill gap, so that sheer numbers will drown out those two polar groups. Same way free infantry balance out little bands that exploit every poor mechanic possible with infantry.

Actually a Harasser from the warpgate takes awhile.
Local Harassers can be planned for via tank mines - a form of defensive line that doesn't require someone be facing the right direction at the right time, to begin attacking the rapid target with low TTK weaponry.

More Targets, that are more bold, with AA being expensive & pin-pointed down with many many more attempts to kill the AA.
AA requires Focus-fire, having swarms of aircraft that can't be kept down at all leads to larger more stable swarms.
This means, for every aircraft still in play by the time the next falls, AA is reduced severely.
Or did you forget, Skyguards need to focus-fire on every type of aircraft.
The more targets, that repeatedly return, the less time it has to repair, to reload, to resupply, or change positions.
The aircraft has no rear vulnerability, the Tank does.

80% of people talking about Skyguard power, talk of positioning being Key.
With less time, and more bold aircraft, since the replacement cost would be one-sided, that Skyguard can not effectively kill that target or hold that position - it will lose the attrition battle while being forced to be reactive.

Infantry can be killed faster than they can travel.
An ESF can travel numerous hexes, and even then it only needs the gate for perfect defense.
The only time the ESF has to spend more than Infantry is the slightly delay between spawning into the aircraft.
As by the time that infantry returns to even a short distance of their death, the ESF has covered a hex or more.

I don't see how a slightly less health target that's entire durability as it is, is based on mobility & Fire-suppression mystically becomes easier to kill by any significant value.
As well, unless the A2G weapons are toned down well well beyond the health, it will still be perfect for the present aircraft strikes.
The only difference being that aircraft can't hover as long in focused-fire - Which means air will finally attack at speed more often.
Or use range.
These two basically give AA less time, a non-stationary target, while giving the target of said aircraft even less chance to react or survive.
Recall, ESFs **** infantry not by simply hovering like a flying gun-turret, but by their damn speed of attack.


Now lets get to the glory of the rest.

How AOE works is simple; The splash is added onto the primary damage, this also means hits are easier to land, with direct hits dealing a lot more.
Infantry guns do not have this; They also have a more severe cone of fire.
On the fastest platform, with the highest mobility, capable of any firing angle & desired range well beyond any ground unit's practical elevation capabilities beyond dedicated AA weapons; which have a severe cone of fire.

It's an accurate gun with splash, with a rapid-fire rate, range, damage, ammo, and rapid reload.
Nothing in the hands of those infantry in those battles is even like that.


You recall how ESFs have fire-suppression, and the AA is all cone-of-fire-rng-from-hell-level?
It wouldn't be fun for the pilot, if they got one-shot by a spray cannon.
And it's not impossible to retreat, given ESFs today can unload their entire load & only take 1 hit followed by a Boost away...
Air has numerous escape mechanics, Health isn't what solely allows escape.

Ever heard of the concept of attrition, or being overwhelmed by the more opponent capable of out-maneuvering you to hell & back?
While AA is reliant on angles, aircraft are the gods of picking them.

Ramming a tank, or that 450 Nanite max for the low price of 150.
Or for 150 nanites, road-kill everything infantry as you please...

Halving it, doesn't mystically make AA better.
Since those kills are basically hollow; The pilot doesn't notice, and can keep at it.
AA can not keep the pace.
Not to mention, with the constant flow of ESFs, how the **** do you focus fire on Libs without the ESFs ****** the entire force.

Turret war = Hover still, unload firepower.
The reverse maneuver, different thing.
Both used by aircraft, one for A2G, one for A2A
Both are demented.

Oh boy did you know, that Half of ESF damage across weapon systems is likely still higher in sheer DPS than most ground weapons?
Or still better than the AA fire, which now would cost double just to attempt it, while being gimped against all other targets.
Or 150 nanites, be universally effective.

Like Jesus, the lone wolf ESF vs groups of dedicated AA.
Lone Wolf everything air but... Valks.
But always groups of AA.
"Lets half the health & damage, while cutting the cost of the most used aircraft - leaving everything else intact"

Libs.
The Agility of the ESF being how it survives in the first place.
The Sheer accuracy of A2G.
Speed.
The fact Air once respawned is nearly instantly back in whatever battle it died in.

Do these seem solved by upping the ease of using ESFs?
No, not bloody likely.
Does this help new pilots? No, not unless they are just sending ESF after ESF like it was bullets not planes.
How about new AA user? No, tricked into thinking that the craft they killed won't appear in 12 seconds behind them till they leave the entire battlefield.


Try engaging aircraft without even the ****** AA.
Universal aircraft.
Dedicated AA.
Cheaper ESF means the ease of ****** every spawn room outside of the warpgate, and a squad of AA just got easier.
Fun ****. Fun ****.

Air killer.
Pretty hollow when the only thing it kills is free aircraft that have been halved to nothing.
And other other aircraft can laugh still at it.
That's not an air killer, that's a fragile aircraft.

The other aircraft need focus fire.
And if the ESFs aren't constantly swatted, they kill the AA, or the very things being attempted to be shielded.
Like looking for something much?

Yes. ESF is an air-superiority fighter.
It should work in the air to kill gunships, Transports and similar aircraft.
That is the job of a Fighter.
Some nutball put excessive A2G on it however, rather than just anti-air equipment to enhance this role.

You know what's much better?
Lets buff AA in some manner.
So it isn't one single aircraft, the cheapest and most fragile originally at that already, that finally dies to the 350 nanite AA tank.

The ease of using an ESF to harass & kill the ground without risk, is not helpful.
That is what I mean.
As the controls still are murder, the Stealth system is still murder, the Built-in-radar still brutal.

The thing is, the Skyguard is incapable of handling multiple-targets all that well.
And if it needs the most fragile aircraft to be halved to finally kill the cheapest aircraft... You are trying adjust the house to the Fire, rather than fix the fire.

Infantry also have no resistances.
This is kinda the grand difference between an ESF weapon vs ESF, and Infantry vs Infantry;
Every single AV or similar weapon must deal severe damage usually to damage vehicles, so it is usually fatal to infantry.
heaven forbid they had actual resistances or amplifies to actually allow AV to do its job without needing a high base value.
Which they even do, just not for engaging infantry, everything is raw damage.

The Libs get focused, the ESFs kill the Skyguards or the Sunderers instead.
As a Single Lib needs basically every Skyguard on it.
We could just fix it, rather than go "Skyguard is an aircraft killer now!" when the very thing it kills is now Free.

Air has many issues.
Halfing it, and halfing the price doesn't fix A2G, nor the air-game at all.
It makes the ESF the most disposable air unit with the same skill curve, and issues.
While mocking AA, as calling the Skyguard now able to Kill aircraft is a joke... as its the most fragile one further reduced at the cost of free.

Your post is about getting more pilots into the air.
Which making ESFs basically Free, but at half their strength isn't likely to achieve.
All it does, is make it impossible to not have an attrition battle in their favor, while severely limiting the single Anti-Lib measure that isn't a swarm of weaponry...

As that is what would let you KEEP the new Pilots if any.
Free ESF, they might try it, but it will be hellish for them to actually fly.
And with no costs for the rest, well bolder attacks, less care, no down-time even more so for the better pilots.
That is why I mention it: As what keeps them flying? The spammability? I ******* hope not.

I sadly agree on that.
Just it seems AA will never actually get proper.

The cost is too steep? I'm sorry? VR? Can we get a free tank?
Seriously? At 350 nanites, the same as a tank, it's too steep?
Only if you don't ever try to fly, and just ram into the bloody ground repeatedly.

Lesson skill curve of A2A by making more things in the sky to kill & be killed.
Doesn't actually affect the curve of a2a combat...
It just means the Rookies, and averages won't be as likely to only have Aces murdering them without backup.

Obligatory "make flightcontrols more intuitive"

add straffing/banking via keypress instead of constant roll + ascend,
allow yaw on mouse

also for god's add keyboard sensitivity

So I tried my joystick again, just to see if that crappy built in mouse acceleration was a way to try to keep joysticks on par with m+kb.... Damn are joysticks awful in this game. Yaw actually feels really good with the twist, you can really dial in how much you want to go left and right, but that's where any and all benefits end. there's zero curve to pitch or roll, so it really is all or nothing. I also don't have any way that I know of to add a curve with my Logitech software. Arma lets you dial that in. Removing that acceleration would be the single greatest thing they could do to improve flight characteristics.

I'd give it a go if I could make sense of the controls. They just do not do what I instinctively expect, from having played other flight combat sims.

You have a keyboard where half of a button press counts for something?

Speaking as a newbie in the game and his experience with Air and G2A:

1. Air, especially ESF has a very high entrance barrier. Even after trying it for a few hours in VR, I am almost as clueless and likely to crash into trees as before. It's a system completely unique to PS2 (that's not a good thing). I like being air in other games, but I play the game to have fun, and would not to spend tens of hours learning a very specific skill just to have a chance of surviving.

2. AA duty feels like "duty". ESFs easily pull out of combat whenever they want (unless they are being greedy in hover mode) and then you are sat in a vehicle which struggles against everything else, with little else to do.


The obvious solutions would be:
Don't change existing planes. Add in a new cheaper simple NS plane which handles similar to those in other games (like War Thunder of Battlefield), with some utility slot option to add limited thrust vectoring as a stepping stone to ESFs. That way the vets will still have their stuff, but potential new pilots will not be instantly turned away. And more pilots in the skies means less boredom for G2A.

Get some one on one training. Just re-mapping your keys and adjusting a few settings can make all the difference in the world. The flight mechanics in this game are so much fun once you get the hang of them. It's worth giving it a go if you like flying in other games. And you have to group up when you start.

AA sucks, and it's always sucked. It's always been a deterrence at best and a bad joke at worst. It's a big problem with this game.

There are several big problems with that. Add more firepower and the aircraft would go around 1-clipping other aircraft before they have time to react, due to the crazy amount of laggy players this game has. Add more speed and the already terrible render ranges would be even more of a problem. Don't add more speed and these things would be helpless without the reverse maneuver. Make them the new air superiority fighter and then what do you do with the ESF? Just leave it as the A2G/
A2A hybrid monster like it always has been? I really think the best solution is what I've proposed. And if you ever do get in to big fights, classic maneuvers start to work again, and you can stay in flight mode just like you're playing warthunder.

Anyway, I hope you give flying a real chance, this game needs more pilots. Group up and it can be great fun.

I would try again, but a requirement for one-on-one training is by itself an indicator of the problem, and reason why air is so scarce.

TBH, this isn't far off from what I was thinking. If you look at the planes you start with in WT, it's the basic biplanes and such. Not useful against ground and fairly slow, but very easily controllable for a prop-driven arcraft (being a newbie aircraft).

That's quite similar to the idea of a "A2A ESF that is (1) useless vs. ground and (2) free to spawn"

One of these days I will make it outside the warpgate for more than 20 sec without geting shot down.

Ironic you should mention that night. There was multiple burt mossi swarms and a small NC air squad too. Burt were just pulling a platoon of air and smashing the fight between chimney rock and the techplant. I was running a (+-1)5 man squad with grisha that night looking for more people. We had to sit in the warpgate multiple times because people were low only nanites. We didn't "gank" anyone, it was a general battle for airspace over that 96v96 at chimneyrock and if I remember right, you flew into us. There was chosunman and shineofthesun, and hops in the area too, and guess what we beat some of the better TR pilots out because you guys were not playing as a group(although I'll admit one is a korean, one a chinese, and 2 american so communication might be harder). Then the burt mossi and lib squad came, we fought them too, ran to our warpgate twice to regroup once they out number us. Let our flak killed those that we missed. Came back and jump on those that over extend or was focus ground pounding. Lead them to our flak, etc. They all left to fight either NC or go on the ground after a while. Like I said, you cannot kept up a platoon of ESF because of flak, moral, and the cohesion goes to **** after nanite loss stacks up.
Killboard as my proof; https://i.imgur.com/plnlur2.png


Don't read if not interested, rambling about dalton, letting off some steam.
[ That is why I hate skyknights and their hover fighting, it is literally a special club. They are adamant, and not just one, I've talked to serveral, about flying alone for some bizarre reason or pride. They scream if a player or a dev even suggest changing any of it. Last time the dev changed hover frame to try and accomedate new pilots they whined until it was reverted. Lock-ons and coyotes, nerfed and changed multiple time because they must run FS instead of using the unthinkable counter which is flares. Complain about mediocre pilot forming gank squads but gloat and call it skill when they oneclip a floundering newbie. Like organization and logistic is not a skill? You of all people should know how important those thing are.

An even easy example to see is the dalton no longer one-hitting esf, they are still screaming about it on reddit, posting video on how easy(once you learn how and with practice of course) it is to dodge and fight a dalton lib a while back, again with their friends far from any battle, just them dancing around fighting each other, no flak, no locks, no other air, the lone ESF dies to the dalton after a minute or so trying to kill the lib. Ok, I agree it does take skill, really great, but when most of your montages are you blowing up BR40 and lower, why do you think Wrel or some other dev look at this and say maybe we should change this to accomodate newer pilot. Teaching them to be wary by and limping away on fire rather then waiting 7 minute or never flying again. I fully support whoever was behind the change, because you can still kill tanks and ****, which was the gun's primary purpose anyways.]


I think you're a bit stuck on the fair fight part, not that its a bad thing, it just doesn't work. There will always be people who disagree. I am just telling my side of the story and its your job to bring the fair fight, abiet pressuring the dev to make such a thing easier is great too, if its reasonable.

I get that you don't like flying around killing the lone solo pilot, but thats what we do or have to do before we can move on to do ground support. Grisha just want to do it in the 96+ we are usually at, Don puts an emphasis on a total continent air lockdown, and I'm in between those when I'm leading. Several hexs out and only at the warpgate if I expect to stop a gal drop on a contested base.

So the only feasible thing I am trying in this situation is to open up a squad and literally hold their hand and pray that they come back next time I run a squad. I have about 3-4 of their deaths to show them the ropes so to speak before they decide to stay. Also in a big air battle, the RM is way less useful (but still very powerful) and the normal "peeling" and chasing that everyone is use to in other game becomes the norm so new pilot have less of a chance of being singled out, and slowly they learn to shoot and fly. But I cannot run a squad with the majority of the pilot being new, hence my excuse for not doing it on other faction, its already hard enough as is on VS, I want to have some fun too.

The dev feels ansty when they talk about nanite flow, and there is membership and booste they have to consider. Not to mention nothing stopping outfit from mass pulling and abusing air if air got so cheap, not that it won't be fun, it would be a mess.

Best solution I can brainstorm after seeing the discussions is reducing the nanite cap to 500. 225-250 nanites might be the sweet spot if the dev do decide to lower ESF cost, 250 for skyguards too(reduce cost for everything else too). Not too much and not too cheap, 5 minute is what members without booste wait atm compare to 7 minute of us regular folks. Reduced the nanite cap at 500 so people cannot chain pull 4 esf, but at least the wait time for newer pilots will be shorter is what I'm thinking. And how about removing redeploy so people use Valks and gal more often and thus giving air superiority a constant purpose, I can dream right?
(Or give 75 nanite a tick, same math really, and actually better since infantry can spam for healthsticks/grenades with keeping everything the same)

Jokes on you old man, flares are passé, I can literally out run any G2A rockets now. Whoever is doing the balance might have though this was a good idea because they think ESF+Afterburning mean they must be running fuel tank so no threat to ground at all. If you're over 200meter away with 1/2 of your tank, you can get away , which I think is stupid. So I been sitting around and testing the VS nemesis, I think I got like 5 esf kills in 80 minutes, and you need a coordinated group to kill an esf now unless they are pants on head stupid. Also need them to be in hover mode or close to under 200meter or they fly away.

Flak is weak this patch, could be an oversight due to new HP value. Or my guess is, Wrel or whoever is doing balance note saw that the thing killing -br100(new pilots) was crashing and flak, and lock-ons. So they nerfed flak and did something with collision and thus I've been slamming my reaver onto trees and the ground on multiple time and just bouncing off with a dent(or could be just server lag due to 2xp weekend). But to be fair the ranger was ******edly strong before so death numbers were screwered last patch, and once again, just like air radar, they thought they are helping out new pilots but it turns out to be more beneficial to vets.

The Valk and the Esf flies similar due to the flight design, you can say the same for a lib too, but ultimately they handle very differently at extremes. Being good at an esf doesn't mean you can fly a valk, gal, or lib and vice versa. I don't think the majority of new pilot want to do transport duty anyways, mostly because it can be dull and you do not have the feeling of being in control and powerful akin to driving a sunday vs a tank. Sure its needed but player rather be in combat and fighting,shooting and blowing up stuff. I mean you can sound it out, "wanna be an ace or a transport pilot".

The valk is in a great spot right now anyways, best balanced this patch in my opinion. People are now noticing it more after the Gal got a nerf. Before, only tightly organized outfit like FPSK, MERC, or SAWS ever use them for quick and fast insertion, but now I see them everywhere. Its the sundey in the sky. Cheap, guns got slight buffs(?), can kill even gals and libs with strikers/lock-on support and the wyveren. It can get pass an air blockade much easier then a gal. The only thing it can't do now is go toe to toe with an Esf like pre-patch when its can shrug off and outrepair 3 esf noseguns. Don't ask for buffs like those idiots on reddit, the nerf hammer rarely strike 2nd place. See, I acted out when hornet got a 2000->1500 damage nerf 2 patches ago, on reddit, regretted that. Since then it has "underperformed" by the masses, and now gotten a 1 second buff and more air damage. Which is ******edly strong for what I can do with the hornet.

This server is completely ******. Between overpop and then zerging, I haven't been able to get a single friend of mine to stick with the game more than a few days. When I do start to talk to aspiring pilots we'll go to the training grounds, remap their controls, show them some stuff, and then go days without being able to fly without getting ganked at the warpgate, and I never see them online again. And literally 99% of the time it's VS, that's why I say you're part of the problem. Even just now, leave the warpgate, make it to the front line and there's 10 Chinese Scythes. just waiting to jump anything out of boredom, flying warpgate to warpgate. I honestly wouldn't have as much of a problem if you did what you do on NC, as they rarely have any advantage and desperately need one, but you happen to play for the premier Asian zergfit faction that needs zero help. For those 20 hours outside NA primetime, it's literally 10:1 VS air. There's no doing anything about that unless the few pilots on the server decide to do something about it themselves, Daybreak isn't going to fix things. The reason it's so hard to get anything from the other factions is because it's been at least a year of ******** and everyone has just quit the game and left it to die. It's not about a fair fight, it's about not having a joke of a server because every pilot jumped on the faction with the best ESF. If the air population was larger, and the game was successful, then yeah, all is fair, but it's dying, in no small part to what you're involved in. I don't care one bit which faction I play on, I just want good fights. I started up a new Discord to try to get a 4th faction thing going. That's exactly what this server needs, a group of skilled players to jump on the underdog side and help balance things out. I might as well just make it an NC thing. But then this population just leaves to the faction that starts doing better and the **** show starts again. Anyway, TR has it's Chinese zergs that rival VS, but it's almost always Vanu fagging it up during off hours. I get they were the underdog for a long time, and you and Grisha put up with that mess while TR dominated, but the tables have turned and you helping provide air superiority, all day every day just enables the **** to keep flowing. You see how easy-mode it is flying VS, it's because air is broken, there just isn't any way for the other 2 factions to keep a presence like they can with infantry and armor. I don't see Daybreak ever fixing that, so it's up to the community at this point to either be part of the solution or keep killing the game.

As long as nanites will keep a pilot down, there's no stopping VS air zergs and missile spam. Until air is basically free, NC and TR will just be hammered back to their warpgate all day and every day, and this **** show will continue.

And they can certainly go on to fly ESF. They'll notice it in the terminal, and they'll interact with them a bit when they pull Valkyrie.

If the Valkyrie is dull, its because you're not flying it appropriately

Although there is the question of "How can a new pilot know they aren't flying it properly?" In an ideal world, there would be sub-objectives that help those new pilots test the limits of the air-frame. Such as flying for x distance at x height, getting transport assists, get a spot ribbon, gunner kill assists, etc, with little short blurbs on how to accomplish each of them.

[/quote]

We've been promoting it steadily for almost a year now. Now that the buff hammer has dropped, there's been a major surge in people pulling, but its been a steadily growing user-base for a while now.

Most of my current concerns revolve around some of the one-clip experiences I've seen ESFs inflicting - that should not be on the case with the potential to get six kills out of one clip. When its purely noseguns, its acceptable, as I can generally dodge enough of the shots in a clip to let my guys out repair it.

The major concern i have as of this patch is with hornet damage. Two hornets can set a Valk almost on fire now, and with a smidge of rotary fire, can insta-kill a Valk. The primary scenario in which this occurs is a Scythe boosting into point blank range and letting loose, or sniping from extreme range (More Rare), at which there is very little audio cuing that you're under attack.

The Mossie and Reaver still suffer from the Hornet cross-hair bug, so they are less effective at it.

My proposed solution for the hornet is reducing its damage vs. aircraft only - there are A2A weapons that are already designed and implemented to cover that scenario, Coyotes vs. Valk and Tomcats vs. Gal/Lib, and Hornets are intended as an A2G weapon.

keyboardsensitivity as in regulating the degree of how fast you roll or yaw on a buttonpress f.e. ... because with the current way keyboardcontrolls are i see myself oversteering many times meaning i have to correct myself with sometimes immidiate countersteering which leads to me getting a fingercrump from longer esfplay .. something i don't get at all when driving ..

The Valkyrie Directive includes the following five options, all five of which must be completed:

Gun Kills (Any Weapons)
Pilot Assists
Transport Assists
Squad Spawns
Rumble Seat Kills.


This is in contrast to every other vehicle directive in the game, including that of other aircraft, which only require N-1 objectives at most, which allows them to skip one or two that aren't your cup of tea. Valkyrie requires all of them.

I've repeatedly requested the addition of Roadkills, but to no avail.

I think it's a smaller part of the problem. But also, you shouldn't blame PS2 for doing something unique with their flight model. And you could even say that any game with a very unique feature requires heavy training to master. Take Arma 3 for example. I absolutely LOVE their advanced flight model for helicopters. I had to take an hour long lesson from an actual helicopter pilot before I could even take off and land. It's just so counter-intuitive to lower your collective when your rpm drops and you want to go up, and raise your collective to almost full as you're landing with a heavy load, just or an example. But sticking with it was well worth it. And I also don't think this flight model is incredibly unique, they're basically just helicopters that can get stuck in forward flight. Switching back and from from Arma to here actually helps me get better at both games, as the required moves here are baby steps compared to what you need to do in Arma. It's just the damn mouse acceleration that makes aiming impossible. So I do agree that flight controls need a little work, and maybe they could link a quick video for ESF basics, but there's so much help out there that a new pilot can easily get the pointers he needs to get started.