Nerf was much needed ... but if it's the right kind of nerf's that is debatable, not whether it needed one or not
I'm just wondering, when or if this nerf goes through as it is how will it compare to the AH at different ranges? Although I do believe from my limited experience with it after pulling it a few times, that its TTK at med/close range seemed to be on the high side, wouldn't all SOE really had to do was just lower its max splash damage to 143 (to increase max shots needed to kill from 5 to 7) and keep everything (except the awesome new sound) the same? Because with that max damage range reduced I'm just worried that it will become just a less effective AH at most ranges.
TR got: Fracture, Vulcan, Striker, horizontal recoil got a massive nerf after launch ON ALMOST EVERY WEAPON, Needler, M18 Rotary, Hellfire and now Banshee. Sure VS stand for the biggest nerf: ZOE but not the most nerfs. TR is the faction with most nerfs VS with lower but the biggest and last NC with minimal nerfs. As i told in my first post which seems like you ignored i said that LPPA is a complete different weapon that uses another mechanic that you cannot compare to AH and Banshee. LPPA got its advantage of high magazine and biggest splash. Its TTK is the lowest but its also the AI weapon with most kills per magazine while Banshee and AH is strike and run focusing on 1 kill mag if more targets do not stay close to the first target. If AH gets up closer it can get 1 kill per shot if the user is good. That means 5 kills or 10 if upgraded. Old Banshee had a kill count of 5-7 kills per magazine depending on range. If it got up as close as AH it gould get around 10-14 kills but at that range AH one shot infantry and 3 shot MAXs. Thats not the ideal range of Banshee. So then Banshee was like AH but better at range and to compensate that AH was much better against air which can be proven here: http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=aKPU&weapon1=4605&weapon2=4906&weapon3=4305 Its also better against ground vehicles http://ps2oraclestats.com/?stat=vkph&weapon1=4605&weapon2=4906&weapon3=4305 but not by any huge difference. Also please note that Banshee and LPPA is not far from each other.
The one thing i think all factions will agree on, is some nerfs are and were ridiculous to what they were nerfed to, and some that are left in their current state. The reality is, as much as each faction banters and tussles against each other, the main anger of direction should be well and firmly directed and those responsible to the extent dire nerfs that were incorporated..SOE.
One day everything will be nerfed to the point where we will all be fighting with sticks and stones! And then even those will get nerfed! (Well actually just VS and TR, while NC will still have their full arsenal)
If you want to list things... Saron (it's been nerfed a few times), Comets, PPA, accuracy nerfs on lots of guns (just like TR did - including the Orion and SVA-88). M-18 Needler is not a bad gun (the only real outlier for AA guns on the strong side of the scale is the Vortek), the rotary is not worse than the Hailstorm Turbo (they're fairly equal), and banshee was overperforming harder than the P.II PPA and got a nerf without being completely destroyed. Yes it's nerfed, but that was the point. It's different, but for the most part it never did out-perform the Banshee, in spite of the PPA being worse at not-A2G. So now you could probably argue that the L-PPA is better at A2G, but to justify nerfing that/equalizing it they'd need to tweak things a lot. Besides, the 3 nose guns (AH, Banshee, L-PPA) should be compared with each other if anything, even if they are different. The thing about the pre-nerf Banshee is that it had just as good (or better) A2G burst/potential than the AH did, but at the range of the L-PPA. So what would you give up, the AH-like damage, or the L-PPA range? Btw, the whole splash thing between the Banshee and L-PPA has to be seen in light of the different RoFs they had. Because of the frankly absurd RoF on the Banshee it had the L-PPA beat in splash potential even if each shot was "weaker". Yes and no. Do you honestly think that SOE would have butchered the PPA like they did if not for the massive whinefest? I don't think so. Nerf it, maybe. To this extent? Hell no.
So according to people in this thread, the AH needs a nerf too. Then what? Nerf the lite PPA? Then the banshee would be the best AI nosegun, so that would need to be nerfed again. But then what about the AH? I guess that would need a nerf too at that point. Well that would leave the the lite PPA for the nerfing blocking. Except then the banshee would be best once again....
You can try. But we both know I can name off a lot more things than you can. Banshee hasn't even been nerfed yet nor have the changes on pts been finalized. Vulcan, already has already been confirmed for buffs and has some changes up on the pts. Fractures, higby already stated he'd was going to look into these, nothing since. MSW-R was hit by the and didn't get anything any other lmg didn't get, you acting like it was singled out somehow is ******** but then again you're TR so I've pretty much come to expect that at this point. The carv literally just got ******* buffed when Marlon left, not even sure why you're listing that. I guess some lame *** attempt to prove you have it worst than someone else when you don't. But yes, please continue. I'm curious now.
Vehicle kills/ESF nose guns: M18 Needler Saron Laser Cannon M20 Mustang Vortek Rotary M18 Rotary Hailstorm Turbo TR has 5.85% of total vehicle kills (basically AA and Anti-harasser) VS has 5.49% NC has 5.49% Based on those 2 classes of gun. The 3 high capacity guns, and the A2G guns are not killing enough to make the top of the list. So no, the TR don't seem to be suffering much in this regard.
Oh I get it now. Damn, the vortek is seriously outclassing the other 2 A2A nose guns. I bet that's because of it's ganking potential. Hope they don't nerf it, I barely got mine upgraded.
I don't think the Banshee should require good aim. Requiring tight aim pushes the Banshee into one of the same design problem areas the AH currently has: good for a small few, unusable by most. Banshee is a counter-unit Weapon (ESF vs. Infantry), and it should be effective (not OP, just effective within desired parameters) as a counter unit when used by the average pilot vs. Inafntry. I am all for having *some* weapons in the game that reward players (incrementally relative to skill level, bonus set within desired parameters) with good Aim. Just as I am all for having *some* weapons that reward players for all manner of (desired) skills. But to peg all weapons to a single baseline skill is a mistake: it mandates tiers of performance based on that skill, it hamstrings the ability of the playerbase to implement designed-in Counters effectively, and it works against the notion of MMO and scissors-paper-rock combined arms. I can appreciate people like Aim to be important in the game. I can appreciate people liking to have any number of different skills be important in the game. But tying the game so that individual baseline skills create a skill floor to be able to implement basic Counters is a mistake, and opens up the game for major balance issues because the Counters are not working as designed: more ESF players selecting other Loadouts impacts targets (kills them more) of those Loadouts more than design intended, fewer ESF players selecting the Counter loadout impacts targets of that Counter less (kills them less) than intended. Design the accessibility/playability of the Weapon as desired across the playerbase (or across playerbase sub-tiers). Design the in-game frequency-use-and-impact as desired. Prey animal populations get "too low" or "too high" when the proper predator impact level is out of balance. Any Prey imbalance will then have ripple effects up and down the food chain. Adjust the predator level, and the Prey level will balance as well. But what were the overall changes in terms of how it felt to use it? Do you have to get closer? Do you have to hover over target longer? Do you just have to have tighter aim, but otherwise can get the same results or engage at the same distances? Does it play more like AH now (in terms of vs. Infantry)? Can it still One-Clip MAXs?
Well we all know what happens when you have to aim, you make threads about hitreg because you're too mad at your own bad aim.
At this pace, all the weapons of Planetside 2 will become at the level of the NS Candy Canon within 2 years, if the game survives.
Well, I think it was more to show how the TR don't really have much to complain about for those two categories of nose gun. Not when the Needler is the one scoring the most vehicle kills and the Rotary isn't even the bottom of the lot.
By hordes do you mean a bunch of guys standing still within less than 1m of each other which each AI nose gun can do, then yes the soon to be over nerfed banshee can do just that.
